Posted Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:16 am GMT by Dave B
One of my MAJOR flaws in my game (probably a result of the occasional idiot) is that I will buy information, then ignore it.
For example, I have A3, flop is A Q 6. Someone bets, I raise (to find out if they have an Ace, also allowing me to save a big bet on the turn or river). They reraise. OK, they have 2 pair, or A w/ a big kicker. What do I do, I should fold. NO, i routinely just slow down and call their raise, their turn, their river. I have bought good info w/ one small bet and paid one more small and 2 big bets (likely more than I had into the hand before getting the info) when I knew I was beat.
How can I get myself to lay these down?????
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Posted Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:34 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
The very act of "buying" information could be at the root of your problem, you are putting money in the pot and thus sucking yourself into thinking, "well its only $__.__ more to call."
You know you are doing something wrong, so thats a start........ the 1st step is admitting you have a problem 
I would suggest that you stop "buying" information at all, well, i didnt come up with the theory, but TJ Cloutier advises that you don't put money in the pot to find out where you are.
To use your example, you have A3 the board is AQ6 you are first to go so you check, if they raise with an A on board, chances are they have 1, chances are if they have 1 they also beat a 3 kicker, so you pass for the price of the blind rather than the blind and then your initial raise. it's a lot easier to get away from this way.
Also may i suggest that if you have to be buying info, you are playing out of position with A3 in the first place, i mean ok, sure play A3 in late position, but to have to act first with it post flop also is asking for trouble.
The $5 you save finding out where you are could be put to much better use re-raising the next guy who bets into you out of position, to find out where he is
Posted Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:11 pm GMT by Jauron
I know TJ Cloutier advises against it, but I have a hard time not doing it myself. I stopped for a while, then found I lost more money by not finding out where I was.
My system was to usually underbet the pot in NL, knowing weak players would blow their wad on a danger board and tell me that I was soundly beat.
In limit I also might put a bet out knowing most players do the wrong thing (at least to me) and reraise on the cheap card instead of letting me put a big bet down on the turn before reraising me. The only reason I can see in bumping me back on the flop is on a draw, or if you want me to lay down my hand, especially if there are players behind who may call one bet, but not two. If it's heads up do what you want but IMHO it's always worth letting a guy in limit keep betting into you until the turn if you think you'll get a caller behind you, then you bump him back on the turn, knowing he'll probably call and the other player probably just wanted the cheap card. Of course this is only with stong hands, something like a pair of 10's can't afford to get cute on the flop.
I firmly believe limit is a drawing game, that is your going to get called most of the time, by even runner-runner hands that simpley refuses to let go of their starting hand when they can just see one more card.... but then I don't play world class pro's either, so who knows.
I realize this doesn't really help answer Dave's question, my only suggestion is one you already know, that is to in limit before you even bet know what you should do if your just called, or reraised and then just follow through. Deciding before you bet helps me follow through. Same reasoning I have to not look at my hole cards before the action is on me...I don't want to use the free time to talk myself into doing something dumb...a problem I tend to have online more often since I cannot hide them.
Posted Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:06 am GMT by krakajak
The first problem is that the information you're buying isn't very reliable. I mean, he 3 bets, so you have to put him on some kind of a hand, but then again, what could he have? If he had AA, QQ, AK or AQ, he probably would've raised the flop. (you don't call pre-flop raises with A3, do you?) He might have A6, 66, or even Q6 if he's a blind, but can you really be sure he has a 6? He might just figure that he can play back at you with a medium ace because you're an aggressive player who is inclined to bluff.
The second problem is that by the time you've put all those bets in, you're almost getting decent odds to chace your kicker to the turn and hope its good if it hits. Once you do that, it's easy to call one more bet to see the river. And you can't fold top pair on the river unless the board is pretty scary, so you pretty much have to call there too.
Maybe trying to go from calling to the river to folding on the flop is too big of a jump. You might put him on a medium ace, call his 3rd bet, but fold on the turn unless a 3 or a 6 falls, in which case check-call to the river. If you still lose money that way, go from there.
Posted Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:42 pm GMT by howzit
Everytime you don't want to call. . .
SAY IT OUT LOUD?
Do i want a moron to have more of my money?
I don't know if it's correct to fold top pair for half a big bet.
I'd say calling the turn bet is mathmatically the way to go.
Ex: Turn makes four flush and perhaps a gutshot. . .then very occasionally I would maybe even raise.
Preflop raisers are forced to slow down on the turn if they don't have the goods. And facing a raise preflop, reraise on the flop, and a bet on the turn, I would assume that's more info to just let top pair crap kicker go.
One note: i hate folding on the river because it just looks like your balls shriveld back into your body like a turtle. Fold the turn and the possibility of bleading off 2 and half bets.size=12 /size
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