Calling a tourney all-in with the big stack on your left. |
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Posted Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:01 pm GMT by Cyberhwk
I HATE being this position...
200/400 Blinds
Short Stack - 2000 in chips.
You - 8000 in chips.
Chip Leader - 15000 in chips.
Pre-flop: Short stacks calls the BB. You re-raise to 1200 with a good (but not fantastic) hand. Unfortunatly for you, the chip leader calls, and then the short stack goes all-in over the top. This is just an EXAMPLE of the scenerio I'm talking about (not asking about this scenerio EXACTLY).
Short stack (SS) didn't go all-in in the FIRST PLACE so I can't put him on a med/large pocket pair, so you think you've got him beat at this point. He's likely trying to double (triple?) up now that he's got people in the pot.
BUT...if you call his all-in then you've just made a 2000 bet on a three handed pot, with the chip leader. If the flop doesn't come like you want it, you just threw in an extra 800 and now you're likely going to be pushed around by the CL. And even if it does, since you have only a good hand and not a great hand, there's no gaurentee you are even ahead at this point.
So do you cut your $1200 loose and live to fight another day? Do you call the all-in and hope for the best? I wouldn't even think about re-raising, but something that crazy might be what you need to scare off the CL (but you're HURTING if it doesn't).
...or am I making some enormous newbie error in strategy here?
So what would you do?
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Posted Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:30 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | Pre-flop: Short stacks calls the BB. You re-raise to 1200 with a good (but not fantastic) hand. |
This is not something I like to do unless you have a great hand. Big pocket pair, AK, stuff like that. I understand not wanting to let the short stack see a cheap flop, let the chip leader worry about that for now.
The short stack got what he wanted, both of you in the pot hoping to triple up. He may not have a great hand but on the short stck you really need to play any high card you get.
Once he went all in, I'd probably fold. No need to give him another 800 chips. And more than likely if the chip leader called your raise, he'll call the all in as well.
Posted Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:19 pm GMT by Jauron
I'm making two assumptions here, that it was down to three players, that I was already in the money (top three get paid) and I do the following almost without exception with the stacks you mentioned.
I call, the 800 chip risk is worth it that the chip leader won't raise again preflop. If he does, I'm gone. The chip leader has to have an extremely good hand to reraise there, because he should want you to cover him.
Now since we have a player all in, the chip leader with no side pot (if he's got a head on his shoulder) understands that it's more important to get this short stack out than to bluff at a pot he cannot win outright unless he shows his hand.
So I try to see the flop, if I hit a solid hand, I bet it out for the min or 2x the min to let him know. If he calls me I put him on a draw, or overcards, or hell he's just keeping me honest. If the next card comes off a blank, I now bet it out 4x the min, again telling him to get out of my pot, if this bet puts my stack at risk because I've now got half my chips invested I'll either check or go all in. I cannot afford to have him draw at me and make his hand if I've exposed half my chips. Usually at this point the chip leader will go away and you now have to see if your hand is good enough to beat the all in. AS LONG AS YOU SHOW A GOOD HAND, at least a high pair, the chip leader should not blame you for betting even if you loose.
Now if the chip leader calls both bets (and your not all in) you've got a big decision to make, are you beat? If you do not think you are continue to bet as long as the last card looks like a brick, if it might of helped him you've got another decision to make, and you're probably right to check it to him. If you think you MIGHT be beat, just check it down on the river, no sense throwing more money away.
BTW, if flop any kind of draw, do not bet it. You need to hit that draw in order to bet it when somebody is all in and there is no side pot (or the side pot isn't at least as large as the main pot) you cannot and should not bluff at that pot, even if it costs you chips when you make your hand.
If you miss the flop check it, and if the chip leader bets and you have no reasonable draws, then let it go. Give him the benifit of the doubt that he's not a dumb ass, if he shows you that trust was misplaced, you have to know that comming into the next all in hand. I would even scold him afterwards if he doesn't take the pot down, tell him not to bluff at a pot when somebody is all in and there is no side pot, it might help you down the line, this is one of the few times I'll scold a player at the table, it's in everyones best interest for him to know this basic information.
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