Posted Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:40 pm GMT by Tralfaz
Hey all:
I was curious to see how you would have played this situation. I was playing in a live $100 tourney last night we all started with 1000 TC. Anyway, I'm at about 1600 TC when I pull pocket AA. I was in the big blind (blinds were 20/40 at the time) and the guy to my left bet 200. Everyone else folded out and I raised it to 400 - he called. (It should be noted that he had about 3000 TC and had been raising substantially for the last several hands) so we were heads up.
Of Course, the flop came 3 diamonds (all small) and neither of my Aces was a diamond. He bet $300, I didn't believe he had the flush so I called. The next card was garbage and he bet 300 again - I called. Then - Arghhh- a 4th diamond hit it was the Ace. So I'm sitting on 3 aces with 4 cards to the flush on the board. He bet 400 - which would have left me with next to nothing.
Would you have called, folded or gone all in?
I'll tell you what I did. I FOLDED. I figured the guy has to have a diamond and at least I have 600 left to play with.
Let me know what you think and I'll tell you what he actually had?
Thanks Tralfaz
PS. I realize that calling was a weak and that I slow played myself to death.
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Posted Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:04 pm GMT by Leo
i would have reraised the flop for 100 and then fold if he would reraise that. if he would call it i would probably fold on the river...
Posted Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:21 pm GMT by highscty
Yep I agree, make a raise on the flop to see where you are, if he calls or raises then back off.
Posted Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:39 pm GMT by mindgame
This one's easy. You've already gone in for most of what you've got. If he's got a flush and you walk, what do you walk with? Next to nothing. I say go all in. You may have him flat beat at this point. You might still fill up or catch the case ace (probably a 20%-25% chance here with a card to come--look it up, you've got 10 outs). Maybe he folds and you don't have to ever worry about it. One thing sure, if you don't at least call now you leave too many checks on the table and you have a fair chance of doubling through even if your hand doesn't improve.
Posted Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:21 pm GMT by Carson Cashman
I think the morale of the story is two-fold... Don't give cheap cards, and raise or fold, don't call.
In your position, I would have raised very hard on the flop, perhaps even gone all in right there (remember, the chance of flopping a flush is quite slim... more likely he had something like AKo or KK, with the K being a diamond. Make him pay to hit that flush. If he calls your all in, you're getting the best of it, and if he hits, well he hits. Statistically, its a good bet for you, being about a 2-1 favorite.
I think that in any situation, be it the flop, the turn, or the river, you either had to raise or fold. Calling all the way put all the pressure on you, and none on him. If you gave him credit for a diamond on the flop, but didn't think he filled it in yet, a raise was certainly the best play.
If, on the turn, you get a read on the guy, or whatever, and think maybe he did have the flush filled on the flop, then fold. Thats a tough call to make, but if you would consider folding on the river when the fourth flush card came, that means you gave him credit for that diamond from the beginning (and should have raised the flop anyways)
OK, I'm rambling on and on. Raise or fold, don't call unless you're drawing and getting great pot odds (and even then, drawing is death in NL hold'em tournaments... stay away from them)
Posted Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:16 pm GMT by Tralfaz
Carson:
You are exactly right! Calling was weak. If I didn't put him on a flush I should have raised at that point. I pretty much slow played myself to death.
I'm not that sorry that I laid down the hand on the river because There was a good chance that no matter what he had been playing he had a diamond of some kind. However, my calling on the flop and the turn was just plain stupid and I went from chip leader to short stacked because of it.
And now for the worst part. He was playing pocket 8's!! Neother of which was a diamond!!! Ah well live and learn.
Tralfaz
Posted Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:36 am GMT by JimiHWannaBe
shouldve gotten all your money in before the flop and just picked up the raise
Posted Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:03 am GMT by PokerGoblin
One thing I haven't seen mentioned:
Try to look at the hand from what your opponent might have read/saw:
He did to you what you should have done to him: Since you kept calling you he probably had you read for a drawing hand and he bet you out. How did he react to your rockets? I would have to guess that he was shocked. I am surprised he showed you the 8's.
Also, were any of the community diamonds on the flop an 8? He may have believed that he had the best hand, especially if they were all low diamonds as you said. I doubt he had you on pocket aces when you just called continually.
I'd have called w/ three aces at the turn. At that point you were what they call 'pot-committed', you probably didn't last too much longer into the tournament after that anyhow did you? There's always the chance the river could pair one of the community cards and give you the boat if he did indeed have the flush.
The possibilities are endless... we could speculate all day on what could have been done.
Hope you learn from it - sounds like a pricey lesson though.
PG
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