RULES?? PLEASE HELP! - Talking during the Game? |
|
Posted Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:28 pm GMT by dldurda
We play No-Limit Texas Hold'em Tournament every Wednesday. We all put $30 each in the pot and start with $100,000 in chips. We are all new but absolutely love the game. Here is a rule we couldn't figure out by watching TV and/or research. I thought I seen an episode of World Poker Tour were the annoucers mentioned something about a player could be disqualifed for telling what's in his hand.
>>My question is somewhat general but I hope someone can HELP? What are players allowed to talk about during the game and/or during an active hand? Please feel free to elaborate on this subject and cover any scenarios that you think could come up. We've already had issues with people talking about pot odds and saying "just stay in keep him honest" etc... these things don't seem fair to talk about but I would like to know how the vegas and/or TV tournaments rule on this?????
Did you know that participating in a poker forum can help you improve your own game? Be it by sharing experiences or simply asking for help, participation in a forum helps you focus and keep 'on topic' which will help you improve your game. You can learn from other players feedback and from their experiences. Why the THP poker forums? We offer one of the best managed texas holdem poker forums available, and the community within is far more friendly than those typicaly found on other sites. We've made a 'lurkers edition' of the poker forum available here on Holdem Poker Online, but we encourage all visitors to register and join in on the conversations on TexasHoldem-Poker.com
Posted Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:44 pm GMT by DDiehr
Once again, you asked about one of those rules where "house rules" vary widely. In general, any talking between players, where at least one of the players is still in the hand, should be heard by all players. Essentially that means "no secrets." This is a version of the "one player per hand" rule.
Furthermore, even if the talking is audible, certain things can't be said. For example, if the flop comes: 2 3 3, and a player who has already folded whines aloud about having folded his 23, that is not allowed. It can give a player currently in the hand undeserved information. Likewise, players currently in the hand usually aren't allowed to talk about their hand either. For example, if there are four players in the pot, and the player who has bet first, tells the last player to act "I have top two" and that player folds, he has essentially cheated the other two players. Firstly, because he gave only one player this information. And secondly, because if one of the other two players is sitting on the winning hand (or a draw to a winning hand) the first player has essentially reduced the size of his pot. And this is the type of thing that leads to fist fights and ruined games.
If there are only two players in the pot, they can essentially say anything they want to each other, they can even flash one or both of their hole cards. (Note, this isn't allowed in most tournaments)
Posted Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:52 pm GMT by mindgame
This such an interesting question. So much goes on at home (=relaxed rules) games that shouldn't really be allowed...that ISN'T allowed in a casino or tournament. I'll share a tale of a particularly embarrassing gaff of my own.
I was fairly new to casino play but I'd been playing poker for 30+ years. The table was unusually pokey for a casino, where you get used to things moving along quite briskly. It was heads up. The first player checked, the other raised, and the first guy starts to ponder. He'd been like this all night and about 3 of us all rolled our eyes. I'm thinking..."Oh crap! Here we go again.."
So I just turned to him and said "Look, you've stayed to the river. You've got at least a pair, probably as high or higher than the 9 that was the middle flop card. Maybe that last card gives him a flush, we all know that. If you've got two pair you have to call...there's too much money in the pot now. If you're still on that pair, you're most likely beat--throw it away. But DO somehting!"
Oh my God! There was an uproar, let me tell you, starting from the dealer, who chewed me out BIG TIME. The rest of the table weighed in, each with his own gentle admonishment (like "YOH! Asswipe...Keep your f*cking mouth shut!" or "You EVER tell that to someone I'm heads up with and they'll find you floating off the beach in the morning, 'cuz I'm killing you before I throw your sorry ass overboard!"). Oh, and the room supervisor came over to see what all the stink was about and he walked me outside and said if I ever wanted to come back in it would be very nice if I'd personally assure him I'd refrain from doing that for the rest of my life.
My point is that you develop certain BAD HABITS (yeah mine is this condescending "coaching" thing that pisses EVERYBODY off) when you play in home games. They come back to haunt you and make you look like a complete ass. So the best thing is hold hard to the rules AND proper poker etitquette whatever the setting. If someone makes an issue out of your being "too nit-picky" just tell them you're saving them from looking like a moron if they ever sit down in a casino.
Posted Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:42 am GMT by Katchem
Here's how we play. Anyone not in the hand says nothing regarding the game - what they folded, possible hands from reading the board, etc. And definitely no coaching a player. Also, any talking by those already folded should be done in a manner as to not distract those still playing. People in the hand can talk about the hand. Sometimes this is an indication of a bluff. No one shows the cards they folded and if it happens accidentally we make sure all those still in sees the cards so no one has an unfair advantage.
As far as tourneys go I was watching the tour and saw one guy say something like "I might have a Q." he didn't. After the hand someone at the table mentioned to him he could be fined for talking about his hand if it was true that he had a Q. I don't get that myself since if I wish to talk about my hand whether telling the truth or bluffing that's part of the game.
Posted Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:59 am GMT by AceyEm
The rules about talking during the game in the Sahara are relatively lax. However one rule I thought worth mentioning was that all talking during a hand had to be done in ENGLISH. I guess this is to keep people from sharing folded cards with buddies that are still in and communicating such information in Flemmish, Sinhalese etc...
Good points about talking after folding your cards though. From now on I'll keep to safe subjects such as the weather and how great a time I'm having on vacation etc. No more talking about cards seen or unseen anymore.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
Posted Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:32 am GMT by ORGrinder
ditto to what katchem said. i think that's about as good a combo of fair and lax as you can get for a home game. after all, your all there to enjoy yourself....
Posted Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:37 am GMT by nicthestick
English only at the table fellas..... If you want to see this last card your gonna stop speakin fukin sputnik.....
Posted Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:10 pm GMT by Jonniedough
I know home games can get wild and crazy, and dldurda asked for casino rules right, I dont know them but would like to know them, or atleast the limits you can go to BSsing whoever your playing against!
similar to the situation with someone at a table in the 2003 WSOP where Hellmuth corrected someone for complaining about giving info away.
Posted Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:15 pm GMT by Blarg
English only. Not even friendly stuff in a foreign language. Not even from your mommy. It's very rare for people NOT to speak in a foreign language at least sometimes if they have one -- to tell a joke, whatever. But it's also very rare not for people to make stupid give-aways of info, consciously or unconsciously, or cheat "just a little." ONE language per table. ENGLISH only, where I play. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to leave the table, and tell the floorman and also his supervisor if the floorman doesn't seem to care. Seriously, I'd pursue it to the ends of the earth. The game MUST STAY CLEAN.
As far as, "I might have a queen," it's one thing if you're heads up. Then anything goes and it's all standard poker bullshit whether you have one or not.
In a multi-way pot, it's an actionable offense if you give away your cards. You can't tilt your hand so your buddy can see it, or just hold the cards out too far in front of you so other people can see them. You can't say, "Oh, my straight will never get there, forget it," because you've just given away info on your cards and thereby the likelihood of what's gong to come on the next cards dealt. NO giving away of info, even if you make a shit-eating grin to cover for it afterwards. That is a very seriously wrong thing to do.
Mindgame, that was a funny story, but scarier than some people might think. Sometimes it's hard not to let impatience get the better of you, but that guy who said you could wind up dead wasn't kidding. There are a fair amount of wildmen and gangsters who play poker, and angry men can have long memories. And criminal types and drunks tend to hold grudges. You're very lucky you learned the error of your ways in no uncertain terms the first time, before you bumped into the wrong guy who took what he figured to be the approximate dollar value of his loss out on your hide. Money is serious business, and even worse when you feel cheated out of it.
You could have just cheated a gangster out of money. Not a good place to be.
Posted Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:50 pm GMT by mindgame
This thread had been long gone and I thought I'd pretty much gotten over that habit anyway...and then LAST night I pulled another bonehead move. I'll mention it to illustrate that sometimes you speak out of just reacting to a situation, and it's a big caution light that you aren't always in control as you should be. Also, there are times when you CAN make amends:
I'm at a cardroom with standard oval tables, dealer in the middle and I'm directly across from him. There are two players in after the flop, in the 1 and 9 seats, (ie, on each side of the dealer). What I'm not really conscious of is that I can see everything, and neither of these players are seeing each other very well. There'd been heavy action on the flop, with the nine seat betting out and one seat eventually capping...everyone else had been forced out. The flop showed three to a straight so we are all figuring that they both have one. The turn card pairs and the bet is capped again. Then the nine seat (dealer's right) turns up his cards. He'd flopped a set and made a boat on the turn. We figure he's being nice to the other guy and showing his hand to save the guy with the staight some money--but he'd gotten so excited when he made the boat that he thought the hand was over...forgetting the river card.
Well the guy in the one seat doesn't see the other guy's cards are face up. He's studying the board and then the dealer flips out the river card, which is of no significance. When the first player sees the river he realizes he's blown a shot at a bet, but sheepishly throws the bet in anyway, knowing he can't get the call. Still not aware that he's beat, the one seat grabs his chips to call. I look at him and say "How can you possibly call? You've got the straight, right? I mean, if I'm wrong and you can beat that boat you have to raise him!!!" I don't realize that these two players can't really see each other. The caller is puzzled and finally sees the boat face up. The guy with the boat says "I'm sorry. I thought we were already at the river." The guy with the straight just looks at me, looks at the dealer (who's red as hell and staring daggers at ME) and then folds.
Well the dealer is still staring at me, and I know he's about to call the floor and get me reprimanded. Before he can speak I tell the bettor that I was totally out of line and I owe him that last bet. I offer to give him the chips as an apology. Instead of taking my money, which he certainly had every right to do, he was just as embarrassed as I was. Said, "No, it was my mistake in the first place, I just got so excited because I knew I'd busted his straight."
Shows that all your humiliating poker experiences are not bad beats.
Posted Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:54 pm GMT by Blarg
Heh, another good story. Classy way to handle it.
But jeez, you really love playing with fire. Being an instructor to a guy on how to play against ANOTHER guy in the hand is really bad form. "One player per hand," they say in the casinos here in So. Cal.
Hope you can learn control over that eventually. Sometimes it's hard when you feel like the smartest guy in the room, but it can be a nice grace note just to keep it to yourself.
Posted Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:23 pm GMT by ballbp
Trust me Blarg, mindgame has been playing cards a little while now. If there's anything that he needs to learn eventually, it's stop buying some damn many chips!! 
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:13 am GMT by mindgame
Well Blarg's impression is telling. It's obviously an ego thing...an expression of arrogance that I must feel but am not really conscious of. This is not a very pretty image in the mirror if I really care to hold it up and look into it--either of a person or a player.
Let's face it. We all play poker because we think we can outplay the opposition and take their money. (Well, who knows, that's arrogant too, isn't it...assuming everyone plays for exactly the reasons that I do?) The game itself, however, offers me regular reminders of my vulnerability and my blind spots. The players do likewise. All in all, there are many opportunities to be humbled, but I frequently manage to resist the lessons offered.
I guess that's why I tell these stories, unflattering though they be. The game tells us a lot about who we are, and it doesn't lie. To be a consistent winner one must confront his weaknesses honestly and deal with them. Life is like that, isn't it? Poker just turns up the volume.
oh...and all those chips. Why in heaven's name would anyone ever need over 3000 chips???? Let's not even go there. (Picked up two nice ones from Diamond Lil's in Seattle this weekend, though!)
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:52 am GMT by Fat Tony
well, at least you handled yourself with class and offered to cover the guy's last bet. if that happened, i'd have a hard time staying mad. :D
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:55 pm GMT by mindgame
Yeah, but Blarg is right. There are a few guys out there, especially at the higher stakes tables, who are, shall we say, a bit less mellow than yourself. People who hold grudges and settle slowly...for whom an apology just won't do.
You saw "Goodfellows" right? Those people aren't made up. I really need to wise up, shut up, and be more careful.
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:25 pm GMT by Fat Tony
very true. but those guys are most likely playing much limits than us. still, if you keep doing it eventually you're going to run into the wrong dude. (you still get props for doing the right thing)
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:56 pm GMT by mindgame
Well thanks. It's always great to think you handled something well. Wish I didn't have to make an ass of myself so often that I get so much practice.
Posted Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:38 pm GMT by Blarg
I don't think I would have been clever enough to do more than apologize, myself. That's usually the kind of thing you realize would have been a great idea to do when you're already down the stairs and out the door and it's too late. You definitely made a good show of it.
As to Tony's note on where the bad guys might possibly be or or at what limits -- I wouldn't make any assumptions at all. That's the safest way.
|
|
