How to avoid getting crushed by set |
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Posted Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:59 am GMT by flushtrated
I definitely need help here. Say you hold the top pair on the flop, you normally bet the size of the pot. Someone calls, then on turn you bet more,now the same person will raise you holding a set. You call and he goes all-in on river, you end up losing your whole stack. How do you avoid this situation.javascript:emoticon(' ')
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Posted Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:34 am GMT by Iron Butt
You don't say anything about what kind of game it is (tight, loose, tournament, cash, the stakes, etc.) which has a lot to do with how you'd play, but here are some things to think about.
1. You need a stronger hand to call than bet. Don't call all-in unless you're sure you're ahead, and you can never really be sure you're ahead with a pair. This goes double in tournament play where job #1 is staying alive; you're not going to stay long in a tourney calling all-ins with a pair.
2. Don't remember where I heard this: "Don't try to win a big pot with a small hand." The usual reason you'd want to bet the pot at the flop with top pair is not because you have a monster hand (you don't, you really have about the weakest hand that you can reasonably expect to be leading with) but to try to win it right there; a well-known tactic. So someone who's calling and raising after you do this is telling you that they're planning on playing it out the same way and beating at least top pair. You need to slow down or even fold to a big bet on the turn in this situation. Definitely don't put your whole stack in play on a relatively weak hand.
Good luck, hope it helps.
Posted Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:16 am GMT by metal1
well, to put it simply you played ONE PAIR like its a monster, which it is far from being. one pair is pretty weak hand when you get raised and someone goes all in against you. what did you think he had? think a little longer next time. and this is hardly advanced theory.
Posted Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:27 pm GMT by gol4pro
This guy's the type of player I'm praying is in a pot every time I have bottom set.
That's the thing, if people knew how and when to fold top pair, even with ace kicker, then people would never get paid off for sets. But ever since the poker craze started, Top pair became the holy grail, and is to be folded under no circumstance.
If I have top pair, and I get check raised by someone who probably "has it", I'm going to fold it every time.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:05 am GMT by Johnnyc2005
i agree with metal and pro. Top pair isn't always all that great. Reminds me of 2 hands I played in the 3-3 PLH game at the Vic.
#1. I am in middle position, limp in with A-9s. Flop comes 9 4 2. EP bets £20, I make it £50 to play. Result = original bettor folds. Exactly what I want. I want to take the pot there and then.
#2. I raise preflop with AKs in middle position again. Three callers. Flop comes K Q rag. I open the betting with £30. Late position makes it £100 to play. I pass and show my AKs. Late position has hit his set of queens and I save lots of money. I know late position must have at least a hand as strong as mine. He prob puts me on AK therefore he is raising because he wants me to call and expects me to pay him off (like most people do because they think top pair with nut kicker is the nuts). As a result I fold and save myself alot of money. Half the table can't believe I lay it down. I want them in the pot every time I hit my 2 pair or set.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:29 am GMT by Johnnyc2005
Some of you will be wondering how I put him on a set. I didn't automatically put him on a set, he could have had 2 pairs. If that is the case I'm still behind and have few outs. Plus if I call I have to pay on the turn and the river which is probably too much for only AK. Many people will wonder why he didn't slowplay his set. This is a classic mistake and the player in question is quite experienced. He correctly didn't slowplay because anyone with JT may then call in EP and see the turn cheaply. With 2 of us in there, they'll prob get paid off sufficiently if they hit to make this call correct.
Posted Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:07 am GMT by KINGJACK
Every time a player reraise a pot size bet he must have something.
He's not blid, he sees the top card on the board and he probably thinks you have it. So, if he raises, he have something big.
If you look at the bord and cant figure out how your oponent could have 2 pairs, then, its a set, and your almost drawing dead if not drawing dead.
Of course sometimes it will be a bluff, but you'll the profit you'll make catching the guy bluffing is far from the loss you'll suffer calling a big reraise with top pair.
Posted Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:27 pm GMT by sergoyaa
What about players who raise on the come in late position? I'm one of them. This is more true in limit games however. Example:
I hold KQs on the bottom. I call 1 raise from an early raiser.
Flop comes J T rag, rainbow.
Original raiser bets (heads up).
I will almost always raise here for 3 reasons:
1) I could win right there to a tight player who might fold top pair
2) If he calls, he will most surely check the turn which means I get to see the turn and the river for only 2 small bets instead of 1 big bet and 1 small bet
3) If I make my straight, he may miss-read my hand
A lot of player do this - especially when striaght draws and flush draws are out there. It's hard to differentiate between a player who is raising in late position with a strong hand (set, top 2 pair) and a player who is raising in late position with a huge drawing hand.
This becomes less likely in no limit and pot limit games - but in limit, it is quite common - and in my opinion a Good play. It makes you a very dangerous oponent in late position.
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