Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:53 am GMT by ilikepoker
So, I made my first visit to the casino here in town to start to get used to playing with real people. I basically went just to watch people to see what I had learned from Caro and hopefully make a few bucks. I got both and one more thing. I learned a couple new things about the game I hadn't realized before. But I'm still very unsure about whether they are true. Can you tell me if they are?
There are basically 2 things that I learned which I want to ask about. 1'st is very straightforward, and the 2'nd could be fairly straightforward too, but the story that went with it was interesting so I'll confuse the question with more details. oh yea. both are fixed limit questions.
1. If you are the first one to call the pot, you cannot raise. So for example, the person directly next to the bb, acting first, could only call the $2 bb and did not have the option to raise to $4. I was very suprised by this and asked the dealer to make sure I had seen it right. He was the one who explained what i just described. Is it true?
2. Ok. this crazy guy sat down at our table. Drunk and ready to spend money! It was a wonderful treat for all of us. He even bought the whole table drinks whoever wanted them (alcoholic drink were not free of charge at this casino). I stuck to my coffee. The guy lost $400 in oh about an hour at our $2/4 limit table! Anyways, he rarely looked at his pocket cards until the showdown and had a line he'd say over and over again "can I bump it?" You couldn't put a bet in the pot with him playing (and he played every hand where he was present for the deal) without expecting it to come around again for at least another bet and if you had the chance to cap the betting but he was acting after you, don't bother, he would do it for you. The pots were all huge. So one time, as he had done a couple times for a change I guess, he looked at his cards. This particular time, he looked after the river, but before any betting was done. The poker manager (is that what you call the pit-boss looking guy in a poker room?) was standing beind him and had warned him previously that he must hide his cards. In this hand he, again, held up his hands so that the dealer (to his right), the manager (behind him) and at least one player to his left could see his cards. Now the manager told him, show one person, you show them all and took the cards from him and laid them open on the table for all to see. All that happened before the betting. I felt bad for the lady to my right who in the end showed that she had made four of a kind because if he didn't have to expose his terrible hand, I guarentee he would have kept raising and reraising even that hand too. Im tellin you this guy was really something else. So my question is - is that true about showing one you show em all in a ring game? I think I've heard that you will be folded if you expose your hand in a tourney but in a ring game, I thought the only real rule about that was relating to mucked hands... that if you show a mucked hand to one person, you must show the whole table. but this was mid-hand and he was still in the pot. or is it just a judgment call for the manager to make? It was too bad cause the manager didn't like the guy but obviously we all did.
Thanks for helping me understand these rules I had never encoutered before, and I wish upon all of you that you get the chance to play with a Kevin from Ontario!
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Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:04 am GMT by Dave B
You can raise UTG (1st to act). Either they have special rules, or they dont know what they are doing.
Show one, show all, this does apply to ring games when enforced. I do think that it only applies to those in a hand.
Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:43 am GMT by Sherrif Lobo
Correct me if I'm wrong but in a 2/4 limit game, if you are utg preflop, the max you can bet is 2 cause thats the betting limit(ie the "2" in 2/4), if someone bets before you, then you have the option to raise it.
Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:56 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | Correct me if I'm wrong but in a 2/4 limit game, if you are utg preflop, the max you can bet is 2 cause thats the betting limit(ie the "2" in 2/4), if someone bets before you, then you have the option to raise it. |
Someone did bet before him, the big blind is a bet. In a normal casino you can raise under the gun. Must be some strange Canada law :D
Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:33 pm GMT by flafishy
Dave, I believe the rule applies to everyone who participated in the hand, whether they still have live cards or folded previously.
I was at Ameristar in St. Louis last weekend, and I saw a woman who was playing almost every flop yet building up a nice stack show her hand to the guy next to her. After the second time I saw her do it, I decided that if he knew what she was playing, I wanted to know, too. So I told the dealer I want to see her cards. The dealer made her show her cards and told her that if she showed her cards to one person at the table, she had to show them to everyone.
Put a stop to it real quick. We didn't get to see her hands after that one, but she stopped showing them to the guy next to her.
Oh, as to the first question, I've never heard of such a thing. Maybe a house rule? If so, a strange one.
Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:43 pm GMT by Fat Tony
show one show all is pretty much a standard rule as far as i know. otherwise some players have an unfair advantage by knowing some of the cards that ARE NOT gonna come out later.
Posted Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:23 pm GMT by ilikepoker
must be some strange canadian rules or they don't know what theyre doing or something. the logic that UTG might have to call makes a little sense the way Sherrif Lobo described it and that's the way it was described to me there, but like you all, i still don't think it's right. it could not be that every site i have played on online doesn't know what they are doing.. it must be casino nova scotia that doesn't. im going to double check again next time i go for sure.
thanks for the answers everyone. on a trivial note, what do you call the "pit boss" in a poker room? a manager? a director?
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:57 am GMT by Always_Bored
Im canadian and ive never heard of the cant raise under the gun preflop rule. Ive played in many ontario casinos.
The show one show all is how it works everywhere ive played however it usually has to be requested by the other players. Ive seen the pit boss come in and say "you guys can force him to play open handed because he showed his cards to another player" but never has he/she personally made the guy play open handed.
Posted Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:14 am GMT by mindgame
That "no raise UTG" rule is the dumbest thing I've heard of. It's so dumb that you need to get some players together and request the management change the rule. Any reasonable casino will change policies if players complain loud enough and long enough. Serioulsy, start a petition if you have to. The way you have to do it is to impress upon them that nobody else does it that way. They don't like to out on a limb by themselves with a weird rule. . .makes them look out of step. Which they are.
Posted Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:36 am GMT by ilikepoker
this is probably a completely useless folowup post but i shoud tell you.. it was me who messed up. there is no strange rule about not being able to raise utg preflop in halifax casino. i just came back from another night and i checked it out. it was my turn to act utg and i asked if i was allowed to raise. dealer looked at me kinda strange and said uh yea. when i only called the bb, he looked at me strange again but i found out the answer. last week he must have understood my question as being, can first person to act after the flop raise? cause i did ask the question after the flop. 
Posted Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:34 am GMT by boden12
For showing hands or folding your hand up ANY place should punish you if other live players can see and/or if there is action behind. But like if you're on the river and you're first to act with 2 people behind you and you check, the next guy bets, the next guy calls and you can close the action by calling, noone is guying to care if you flip up your cards when you fold (like if you flop a set and get killed by a flush). Or like if the person next to you is already out of the hand most places won't say anything if you let a player next to you see your hand (as long as it's not done really obviously), especially if you fold right after (like if you had pocket Kings and the flop comes like A-A-10 with lots of action, you might show a player next to you out of disgust).
Main thing is if you're going to do this DON'T whisper back and forth to the person sitting next to you. People will jump on you for this. So like if someone shows me their hand (unless it's accidental) I pretty much shut up or talk loud enough so everyone can hear. You shouldn't be whispering at the table anyway, but if you're showing cards and whispering that's a quick ticket to the door. Depending on how much of a regular you are some places also turn a blind eye to pre-flop folding with the cards up occasionally. Doesn't happen often, but like if someone continues to get bad cards he might flip up an 8-3off and pretend it was accidental. Just watch what other people do and you'll be ok.
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