How to play the "maniac" at the table |
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Posted Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:52 pm GMT by Mr_Inker
Ok, this one really bites me inthe ass. I was at the Taj last night and (to back up a bit) I have finally started to be a consistent winner at the tables. Everythign seems to be clicking now and has been for about 3-4 weeks and since then, the money keeps coming in. Last week I was a $350 winner at the 5/10 table and I went down last night to do a repeat. I played a great game and within 5 hours at the table, I was up $310. At about 11pm, this guy sat down who was the textbook maniac. He played every flop (we really started counting the times he folded preflop and it was 0), basically his hand started after the flop. BUT, he would continue to chase to the river with his hand, whether he got a piece of the flop or not. I am talking 6-2os, 2-7os, things like this, hands that have no chance of doing anything. He would play this and coldcall 3 raises preflop. I am not exagerrating, I never saw anyone do this although I read about it. He was having the time of his life, he kept telling me "it's only money, it's only one more bet". Pure gambling. When he first sat down, I really nailed him for a few big hands. I mean, really hit him hard. But after about an hour (when I should have called it a night), he started hitting his crap hands. 6-2os was hitting full houses and his 2-7 of spades made a flush to someones rightly chased down straight. I mean, people were ready to kill this guy. I kept thinking, ok, he'll give it all back by continuing to play like this, ubt he didn't, he kept hitting. I continued to play my game and waited for the hand I needed and again he would suck out on me with crap.
This is not a bitching thread, I want to know how to play and beat a guy like this cause right now, I don't want anything to do with someone like this again until I figure it out. By the time I left I was even having given back my profit for the night. Please keep in mind, I a pretty good player, I was waiting for the hands to get in, and playing them right. But it was like playing a random card generator, the constant big blind.
Any advice?
Mr_Inker
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Posted Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:23 pm GMT by K-rug
Well you're not going to know when he has something and you're not going to know when he doesn't. Get up and move to another table. Don't make it a vendetta thing and a goal to "beat a guy like this". Just do your thing. I've gotten up and moved tables when someone sits down who doesn't know what they are doing and plays like a complete maniac. Even if you have a great hand, unless you bet a ton, he's going to call. Especially with the "it's just money" comment.
One thing you can try to do is find that "uncomfortable bet". Everyone has one and I can't stress this enough. If you have a pretty good hand, I'm talking something other than 66 with JAK on the board, raise him an amount that would make him stop and think. It may be an all-in. But play the odds, all the odds. Know how many outs you have. Put him all-in if you have to. He WILL lose in the long run.
Once he hits a hot streak. Get up.
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:22 am GMT by Dave B
I am assuming this as limit. If I get a guy like this I play VERY aggressive early preflop and on the flop, then slow down a bit when the bigger bets come in. Since he will play anything, make him pay to see the flops that you are in (presumably you are a favorite). If you hit, bet and/or raise the flop. If he is still hanging around and you just have top or 2nd pair, dont give him the chance to check raise if he is acting before you, check the river if acting 1st.
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:18 pm GMT by nicthestick
get up and move. there are lots of other tables in the cardroom. or move to his left if you can. that way, you can punish him.
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:46 pm GMT by kook04
We have a guy like this in our twice-weekly home games. Raising pre-flop, rasing bets with nothing. The problem is, he is semi-decent as a player, but way too aggressive.
So what I do is let him hang himself. They almost always will. Basically, I don't limp to often with a mediocre hand, because he will almost always raise pre-flop. I will limp in against him with a strong hand and if I hit, it's all check/calling for me until the river. He will (without a doubt) be the flop and bet even more on the turn. I'll call looking like I have a decent hand or a draw. On the river, I hammer him, and it has worked a bunch of times.
Don't try to out gun him, it will only get you in trouble. Just wait for the nuts, and let him take care of himself. Meanwhile play your regular game after he is out of a hand.
Posted Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:27 pm GMT by flafishy
I run into these people constantly on the weekends at the Indian casino (my only choice locally) here in South Florida. I hate playing with them, so I don't go there much. But sometimes, the poker-playing wife drags me there, so I forbear.
Anyway, I've found the best way to deal with it is play as tight as you can stand to play from every position except the button and one off the button. I play nothing but premium hands (AA, KK, AK, QQ) in early and middle positions and I'm not afraid to throw them away if the flop shows three suits or a high pair or a three-card straight or something like that. I loosen up a little from the BB after a raise or two, but I don't go too far. In other words, I just play to keep my money in early and middle. A lot of times, I'll sit out a couple or three hands almost every round after the button moves past me.
But in late position, on the button or one off, I loosen up and play lower pairs or middle or high suited connectors and get aggressive as hell. If you watch them closely for a couple or three rounds, you'll be able to get enough of a read on them to play confidently when they're betting in front of you. You'll get nailed with a bad beat ocassionally, but you're going to win a lot of big pots if you play aggressively with good cards in late position -- and watch them closely for tells.
I've found some tells almost 100% universal with these guys. If they stare you down while they're playing a hand, they're trying to scare you away because they don't have anything. If they won't look at you while playing a hand, that means they don't want to give away that they have something good. And if you can catch them hesitating before placing a bet, that almost always means they don't have a good hand. If they have a good hand, they can't wait to get their money in the pot, and you'll see them counting out their chips or holding them waiting to throw them in.
I've been successful playing these people when I've been somewhat relaxed and am able to keep all that in my head. The problem is that they put me on reverse tilt too easily, and I'll get away from my game plan and play too timidly with those late position hands. Or if I get something like AA cracked by a runner-runner flush or something, I'll get pissed off and then start trying to play like them. That's bad bad bad.
The key is to keep your composure and not stray from your game plan. If you can do that and catch some cards once in awhile in late position, you'll clean up.
Posted Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:42 am GMT by Cactus Jack
Terrific advice on a good topic. Patience is hard, huh? Sitting there wondering if you are EVER going to get any cards, like you've become a paying spectator. Ish. Hard, hard, hard. Thanks for reminding me. These are truly the hardest guys to play, because the one time you get a great hand is the one time they aren't betting 7-2o. 
Posted Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:25 am GMT by flafishy
| Cactus Jack wrote: | | Terrific advice on a good topic. Patience is hard, huh? Sitting there wondering if you are EVER going to get any cards, like you've become a paying spectator. Ish. Hard, hard, hard. Thanks for reminding me. These are truly the hardest guys to play, because the one time you get a great hand is the one time they aren't betting 7-2o. |
Patience IS KEY in this situation. I had one of these a couple of nights ago. I didn't play more than a hand or two in the first hour, and then I folded after the flop. Several hands I mucked preflop ended up hitting big on the board, and it does get frustrating. But you have to wait for your cards to come to you.
Finally, after about an hour of just sitting and mucking and watching, I caught a run of good cards and cleaned up. Ended up being one of the best bottom-line sessions I've had in quite awhile.
During that first hour, if I felt myself starting to get a little edgy, I would look at my stack and tell myself, "Look, I've been here a long time and haven't won a pot yet, but I'm still only down three big blinds. All I need is one pot, and it'll come." Just a little mantra that helps me get through those long stretches.
But then when it comes, you have to remind yourself that that doesn't change anything, you still have to play your game. I have a tendency to feel superior after hitting a big one and start pressing my luck by getting too loose and aggressive. So I have to keep telling myself to take a breath and stick with the game plan.
That's really the only way to play this situation. If you start tilting and trying to force the issue, you're gonna lose your shirt. If you stay calm and patient, you'll win big.
Posted Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:46 am GMT by propumpman
I play in Detroit Casinos and we have a few regular guys that play like Maniacs. They will Bet and Raise with NOTHING.
The good thing is the regular crowd knows who these guys are and those of us who play "the right way" can double our take.
My advice is to watch for the tells and let the moron rake a few pots from the tourists and then get him... We had one guy (Maniac) come into a 5-10 table with about $800. He left about an hour later with about $300 left all pissed off....better him than me.
Send us your Tourists and Manics... we love em
Posted Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:56 pm GMT by Absolution
And you'd think that they might pick up that you are playing tight and fold whenever you bet, but they don't. They actually can't wait to play against you. They have this attitude that it's even sweeter to take someone down who has a better hand and is waiting for cards. They want you to get upset. Of course, this all means they pay off big when you hit. It does suck though when they luck in (like say hitting two pair when you hit TPTK or a set when you are two pair) and then really start talking smack.
Posted Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:01 am GMT by Cactus Jack
I was just reading something yesterday that I thought was really interesting, something most have not thought of: Take the seat to the RIGHT of the maniac! Huh? What? Doesn't this go against conventional wisdom, as above, where you want them to YOUR right so you can punish them?
Ok, here was the logic behind it. If the maniac is to your left, he will do your betting for you! If you have a good hand, check or call, knowing he'll bet. The others will call him, because they know he'll play anything. When it comes around to you, raise. He'll either call or reraise, and most everyone else will have to fold. Now, you've either got him heads up, or you know somebody else has what may be a better hand than you've got. Either way, you have gotten more bets than you would have if he was to your right and you have raised him. Plus, no one else at the table can put you on a hand, because they don't know if you are going to raise him. He's your stalking horse.
I like the logic behind this side of the argument.
Posted Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:28 am GMT by ReRaIsE
That does sound like a good strategy, except you won't be playing many hands at all.
And then, there is the possibility his 72o will crack your cowboys anyway LOL.
Posted Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:54 pm GMT by ncskiier
Oh m'gosh, I wish I'd found this thread the other day before my last home game. We were down to three late in the night. Me, my buddy, and a serious LAG. We played til 5AM, three-handed, NL. I got killed. Every, and I do mean every, time I flopped a set he called all the way with a draw and always hit it. I fell right into his trap. I started playing every hand, thinking, "ok, if I hit this flop, I'll double up". It never happened. The worst night of my life. In hindsight, I should've tightened up alot, slowed down, and actually used my head. Next time that MFer is mine.
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