Posted Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:50 pm GMT by tk
What signifies a fold, a verbal statement, or tossing your cards towards the dealer? I'm asking because at a past tournament, i was contemplating an all in call. Out loud I said, "Mmmmm, No..", but did not toss in my cards. The player I was playing against took the "No" as I was folding and started to rake the pot. What is the ruling on something like this?
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Posted Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:08 pm GMT by BrianGre
this will probably depend on the setting...
if you are at a card room, then the dealer should do the raking and tossing your cards into the muck or verbally stating "fold" should do the trick...
if you are at a home game, then the action you describe should probably start a riot...
Posted Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:20 am GMT by Cyberhwk
One thing to remember is that is most houses verbal statements are binding.
With that being said I say the guy was REALLY jumping the gun. Translating "no" into "fold" is quite a stretch.
Posted Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:05 am GMT by Always_Bored
Thats why I always wait for the cards to be gone before I have any reaction. I definately wouldnt start grabbing a pot right away.
Posted Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:59 pm GMT by leviathan
As far as i understand it, the whole verbal declaration thing means that anything you say that could be interpreted as indicating your action, fold / call / raise etc.. is binding. I had this rule applied against me in a similar situation and in that instance i wanted to call but i had said
"nah, i call"
This was the last table of a £20 rebuy, serious prize money and the tournement manager had taken over dealing and he was totally sure that it was right to apply the rule, so... i lost about 10,000 chips 3/4 of my stack at the time.
I can understand why, you know, say no and watch that half second of relief as the other guy knows his bluff has worked then "i call". From now on my only words at the table..
"i call"
"i fold"
"i raise"
Posted Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:08 pm GMT by Cyberhwk
I just keep my mouth shut, put the chips out there and let the dealer and other players figure it out. 
Posted Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:28 am GMT by aliceinwonderland
so are you saying you wanted to call? if you didn't have more chips than him, you had no other options. call or fold. sayin "no" would mean you don't want to call, so he's just moving things along. still the dealer shouldn't act till you've mucked your hand. 
Posted Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:46 am GMT by fonzerelli_79
i think the dealer should have a little common sense and wait a few seconds after someone says no. If they are still holding their hands and saying no they should ask for confirmation from the player.
It isnt speed poker - you dont have to decide within a split second
Posted Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:08 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | Out loud I said, "Mmmmm, No..", |
There is no way you can translate that into "I fold".
If I'm faced with a big all in raise, or any decent pot for that matter, I'll talk to myself. "Mmmmm, No..", could easily be me elimintaing a hand my opponenet may have.
As for the player raking the pot, the dealer should have broken his hands.
Posted Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:29 pm GMT by Fat Tony
the scenario you describe should definitely NOT be considered a fold.
Posted Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:07 pm GMT by mindgame
This is a really good question. The answer surely varies from place to place, but I am going to ask at the casino I frequent, because the issue has never come up in any games I've been in. Generally when there is confusion the dealers hear (outside Chicago) wait to see if there is any objection to what happened from the other player(s). For instance, I've seen a guy actually throw his cards down and slightly toward the pot when he thought there'd been a bet on a 4th street card. Everyone looked at him and a few people started to say something, then he snatched them back up.
This was surely a fold, even though they didn't make the muck. The dealer looked at the two left in to see what their reaction was. He doesn't want to piss off a customer if he doesn't have to. Both player sort of shrugged, with a "whatever" look, and he let the guy stay in. Now this was at a 10/20 table, which always include 5 or 6 hard core regular players. We tend to be forgiving of weak players because we need them.
In a tourney, I have no doubt it would be much different, since everyone is fighting for his life. We have 30/60 pot-limit Omaha game here too, and the arguments at that table can lead to real uproar, so it's a lot different there as well.
Posted Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:25 pm GMT by Bleakill
the only solution there is: don't hurry with your action before you're absolutely sure that the person caled/folded/raised. If he announced it or if dealer announces it, then you're safe )) i mean i know how tempting is it to flash them with your nuts but u might get burned...
Posted Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:02 pm GMT by flafishy
I guess it really depends on the house's standards for interpreting a verbal declaration. I wouldn't have interpreted that as a fold, but then it wasn't my house.
But in a live game, I keep my thoughts to myself and have only a three-word vocabulary when it's my action: Call, Raise, Fold.
Posted Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:43 am GMT by Jauron
You be careful and curtious about what you say, if you've said no before and it meant fold then his actions were understandable, however he did jump the gun a bit.
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