The $1400 bluff in a NL live game |
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Posted Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:58 pm GMT by raisebot
Just an interesting play I saw last week, at a no limit game I was in at the Palms. The blinds are $2/$5, with relatively strong players at the table.
A few players in the hand. The flop comes, 3 diamonds are out on the board. Big Blind bets a moderately sized bet, about $50. 3 Callers. Turn comes, rag card, no diamond. Big Blind bets $175, 2 callers. River comes, another rag card. Big Blind goes all in, for about $1200. One guy folds his king high flush, another throws away trips (that he flopped). After they both folded, the big blind exposes his hand anyway. Not even a pair, just an Ad/6c. The other 2 players looked sick to their stomachs for not calling, as they would have had this guy beat. The guy, smiling as he was stacking his chips, said "No way either of you could have called my bet. I had the Ace of diamonds, so none of you had the nut flush."
Interesting play indeed, something that wouldn't have happened at a table full of amateurs, as someone definitely would have wound up calling the all in bet. Kind of a crazy play if you ask me, as it would have been outright suicide if someone called, but when you think about it, he was right. How in the world could either of the other players called (each had about $700-$900 in chips, less than him, but still a good amount regardless), if they didn't have the absolute nuts?
Discuss.
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Posted Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:31 pm GMT by redd38
If he flopped a king high flush he should have reraised to see if big blind caught the ace high flush. If that guy didn't raise then the guy that flopped trips should have raised. So I think it was a good read by the guy with the ace, he saw they were both scared of their hand and he made a move.
Posted Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:45 pm GMT by Dave B
I guess that is the ONLY good reason to buy in for less than the maximum.
There are many more reasons not to.
Posted Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:18 pm GMT by ViperX883
I think in that situation you have to call with the King high flush... I mean, what are the odds of him having the Adxd??? They can't be good, and you gotta take risks sometimes, especially when there is only one hand that can beat you. I do agree, though, that the King flush should have reraised to test the waters.
Posted Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:59 pm GMT by redd38
| Dave B wrote: | I guess that is the ONLY good reason to buy in for less than the maximum.
There are many more reasons not to. |
are you responding to the right question? 
Posted Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:17 am GMT by raisebot
| ViperX883 wrote: | | I think in that situation you have to call with the King high flush... I mean, what are the odds of him having the Adxd??? They can't be good, and you gotta take risks sometimes, especially when there is only one hand that can beat you. |
You say that now, but if you were in that situation you might feel differently.
Here's some more details of No Limit Play at the Palms (where this occurred)...
No Limit
$2/$5 Blinds
Minimum $100 Buy In, Max $500
The minimum and maximum buy in is very important here. Like I said earlier, both other players in the hand had a substantial amount of chips. The only way they could have gotten those chips (anything over $500 in their stack) was by winning them from other players. This move happened after I was sitting there playing, for at least 2 hours. Both of those players were already in the game previous to my arrival. What I'm getting at is that it must have taken them at least a little while to build up their stacks to the level they were at. Now if that was you in their situation, you mean to say you would risk everything by calling all-in when you didn't have the nuts? At least on the flop and turn, the guy with trips still had outs; the king high flush didn't. If he wasn't prepared to go all in with his (flopped) king high flush, he shouldn't have stayed as long as he did. What was he waiting for? An Ace of diamonds on the board so he knows he has the nuts???
As far as raising the guy who made the bluff, I truly believe he would have re-raised all-in right there and then. Some of these players are no joke. He knew he was up against logical players, and used that to his full advantage.
Posted Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:19 am GMT by raisebot
| redd38 wrote: | | Dave B wrote: | I guess that is the ONLY good reason to buy in for less than the maximum.
There are many more reasons not to. |
are you responding to the right question? |
Well if you started out with a small buy-in, it would be easier to call the bluff to try and possibly triple/quadruple up.
But if you had already built some stacks, then what would you do?
Posted Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:05 am GMT by Leo
i wish i could make moves like that at the homegames i play. some of my friends will call all-in bets with top pair no matter what's on the board.
Posted Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:13 am GMT by Always_Bored
| Leo wrote: | | i wish i could make moves like that at the homegames i play. some of my friends will call all-in bets with top pair no matter what's on the board. |
same here. No one seems to read the board at all. 4 card flushes on the board dont scare any of my friends cause they got two pair!
Posted Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:19 pm GMT by suitedaces84
There's nothing worse than a no limit game where you've got more money in front you than you're willing to lose.
Posted Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:40 pm GMT by The Nutz
| Quote: | | i wish i could make moves like that at the homegames i play. some of my friends will call all-in bets with top pair no matter what's on the board. |
That's what I'm saying! I'm sittin' here reading this thinkin'... No way this would fly in the games I play in. He probably would of had 2 callers. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so loose... cause I like the play, and the folds.
| Quote: | You say that now, but if you were in that situation you might feel differently.
|
Amen to that!
Posted Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:29 pm GMT by whalemangler
The real question the king hi flush needs to ask himself is what could the all in player have and why would he bet all his chips like that. This really depends on the read you get. If you had seen this guy go all in time after time and show the nuts you would fold. If he was a solid player, it is hard to put him on the nuts. Think about it - when you hold the stone nuts on the river, what do you do? Do you blow all the rest of the players out of the pot by betting an amount that noone can call? You are HOPING someone has the king hi flush and you can extract maximum cash from him.
On the other side of the coin, what does this player think of his opponents? Does he think you are the type that would call all ins for full+ buyins without the nuts? Have you shown the ability to call big bets with a marginal (compared to the bet) hand.
On the river there is somewhere around $750 in the pot. I would be more convinced I was beat if he had bet like $400-500. I would read the all in as exactly what it is, a stone bluff with the ace of diamonds. Of course reading it and having the balls to go with your read for that much cash are 2 different things.
I have done that exact play in omaha but of course I got called by a q hi flush.
Posted Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:15 am GMT by Verdi
| ViperX883 wrote: | | I think in that situation you have to call with the King high flush... I mean, what are the odds of him having the Adxd??? They can't be good, and you gotta take risks sometimes, especially when there is only one hand that can beat you. I do agree, though, that the King flush should have reraised to test the waters. |
It happens. I did it. I had KdQd with three more diamonds on the board. The other guy raises, I reraise. He calls all in. I call. He's got Ad5d. I was feeling sick. I lost $27 which I had built from the max buy in of $20. The entire pot was over $60... (to add to my misery I lost another big pot to the same guy with a flush ace high to a straight flush moments earlier. I couldn't do more than to laugh at my misery...)
Then yesterday the situation was exactly the opposite and I was on the winning end. Unfortunately the first experience put me off NL so this was only limit. I won but not as much as I would have won in NL.
Posted Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:15 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Very interesting play.
Last night I sat down at the $5/10 NL table on Full Tilt. I bought in for the max of $1,000. There was a guy at the table with $3,500.
My first hand I get dealt 8/6 of diamonds on the BB.
Small stack ($52) calls for $10, next guy ($28.25) calls for $10, Mr $3500 raises to $30, I call, Small stack ($52) goes all in, next small stack ($28.25) calls all in, Mr $3500 calls, and I call.
Flop comes 10 K Q of diamonds. I check my flush, and MR $3500 bets $100 - I call - I want to make sure a diamond doesn't turn before I get aggressive. Turn comes the 8 of spades. Mr #3500 bets's $200 and I raise all in another $648. Mr $3500 calls.
River comes a 3 of diamonds.
Mr $3500 has Qs10h
Short Stack ($52) has As2s
Other Short Stack ($28.25) has Jh9h (Flopped the straight)
I now have $2080.25.
I go to bed, after playing one hand for the night, up nearly $1100.
Discuss
Posted Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:35 pm GMT by Verdi
1988 TR,
Obviously I can't relate to the sums you play for.
I wouldn't play like that though. Regardless... First of all, I wouldn't call a raise with 86s. It's so easy to get trapped, like you almost did.
In the end you were extremely fortunate to get away with it. But you couldn't know the river when you made the all in move of course. Pretty much anyone could have had a higher diamonds than you and still act like they did.
Mr $3,500 was the biggest fool though. Calling an all in with two pairs with a flush AND straight draw on the board? Come on, what was that? Was he hoping to catch the full house?
Short stack must have been on tilt or desperate to get out of the game. Going all in with A2s?
The other short stack was also way off going all in with J9s. I guess it must be that he was almost out already.
No, I can't say I like anything from that hand. Sorry.
Posted Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:07 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I guess first of all, you need to play the game quite a bit to get a feel for it. I called a $20 raise on the big blind - Not a big deal at all considering the type of game I was playing. The short stack went all in behind me & I had to call another $20. Remember it is a $1000 buy in. That is like someone raising $1 in a $50 buy in - Certainly you wouldn't be afraid to call a $1 raise on the BB would you??? Now how was I almost trapped? By the river being a diamond? I only had to beat 1 player (Don't care about the small stacks). If he wants to call my $1k with a 15% chance (7/45 with his 1 diamond), I welcome that. He is an even bigger dog wth 2 pair. Now if he calls with 1 diamond, and hits the river, I didn't get trapped, I put my money in with the best of it (85% favorite) and got rivered. Being that he had 2 pair, I was an 87% favorite.
Now I have 2 short stacks all in, so the hand is heads up. I have a guy with more chips than he knows what to do with playing against me.
He comes out betting $100 on the flop. Most players will not come out betting like that if they flopped a flush. They would slow play - Check raise. I call the $100 knowing I am all in on the turn if there is no diamond or the board doesn't pair.
On the turn, he comes out betting another $200 (again, a sign he doesn't have a flush). I go all in. If he wants to call with 1 big diamond, I am the favorite and willing to take the risk.
If you can't make that play, you are too worried about the money & not playing poker.
For what it is worth, it was also a 7 handed table.
Posted Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:34 pm GMT by 1988 TR
It's like when I was playing with Phil Gordan at that same stakes table the other night.
About 10 minutes earlier I catch 2 pair & he tries to muscle me out of the pot. I raise $300 on the turn (there was flush & st draws out there that I think he had). He types in "Can you call an all in?" I don't answer & he folds.
So now 10 minutes later I have Q9s and call a small raise of his pre flop. Flop comes Q, X, X. He bets Pot (About $75) and I raise him to $150. He re-raises me $250. I call. Turn comes and ace we check. River comes nothing and we check. He turns over J7s - Flat out nothing. No pair, no draws.
Then he wants to tell me how I made a bad play because he could have had AA, KK, etc. True, but the way the hand was played, I thought he was still upset about me betting him out of his earlier draw & was trying to put a play on me. I was right.
Do I need to read his book to "know" I should have folded there? lol
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:27 am GMT by suitedaces84
| Verdi wrote: | | No, I can't say I like anything from that hand. Sorry. |
I agree with that. No offense, but that was a disgusting hand. Especially preflop. 4 players in for 5xBB with A 2s, 8 6s, Q To, and J 9s. Out of those 4 there's 0-2 playable hands depending on position without a preflop raise.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:26 am GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Verdi wrote: | | No, I can't say I like anything from that hand. Sorry. |
I agree with that. No offense, but that was a disgusting hand. Especially preflop. 4 players in for 5xBB with A 2s, 8 6s, Q To, and J 9s. Out of those 4 there's 0-2 playable hands depending on position without a preflop raise. |
You guys are funny - Do you only know how to play AA or KK?
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:36 am GMT by campbeas
its true that looks like alot of ugly play.
nice take down though. up $1100 in 3 minutes is a good night./quote
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:41 am GMT by 1988 TR
I think the play is pretty typcial - Step back and look at the hand. I am BB - The guy to the left of me wants to see the flop with A2 suited the next guy wants to see the flop with J9s. The guy with a ton of chips raises to $30 with Q10. I call because I want to see a flop with 86s, the next guy goes all in since he only has $52. The next guy is the only questionable call, calling the 2 raises cold with J9s. The original raiser calls and I call (Stuck in between the raises). Once the flop comes, the other 2 guys are pretty much all in (J9s had a little bit left).
Pretty typical.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:34 pm GMT by 1988 TR
If you have a hard time following this, you might be more comfortable here :
http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/forum/f10/beginners-questions?sid=1721f6ee3b2cae976fa243184f261038
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:37 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | You guys are funny - Do you only know how to play AA or KK? |
No, but 8 6s with 3x BB raise is way out of my range. Nice pot though.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:43 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | You guys are funny - Do you only know how to play AA or KK? |
No, but 8 6s with 3x BB raise is way out of my range. Nice pot though.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:43 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | | You guys are funny - Do you only know how to play AA or KK? |
No, but 8 6s with 3x BB raise is way out of my range. Nice pot though. |
So you are playing a short handed table and get 86s on the big blind at a $50 NL table. Blinds are $.25/$.50. Someone with $300 raises to $1.50 - You don't call the $1.00 raise to see the flop?
No right or wrong here, just curious.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:59 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | You don't call the $1.00 raise to see the flop?
|
No, I don't even think about it.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:18 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | 1988 TR wrote: | You don't call the $1.00 raise to see the flop?
|
No, I don't even think about it. |
Interesting...
Do you want to play me heads up?
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:55 pm GMT by BMiller1980
LOL at someone...im not gonna say who though :D
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:19 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| BMiller1980 wrote: | | LOL at someone...im not gonna say who though :D |
You want to play heads up?
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:19 pm GMT by suitedaces84
tone=sarcastic
Last night I sat down at the $5/10 NL table on Full Tilt (play money of course). I bought in for the max of $1,000. There was a guy at the table with $3,500.
My first hand I get dealt 8/6 of diamonds on the BB.
Small stack ($52) calls for $10, next guy ($28.25) calls for $10, Mr $3500 raises to $30, I say what the hell my mouse is already on the call button and I want to see the flop. Besides it's just play money, so I call. Now, for a player of my great caliber this is an easy call. Think about it, diamonds are the second lowest ranking suit and most players will fold cards like 8 and 6. So know one will ever suspect that I called 3xBB with 8d6d (very sneaky on my part). The small stack ($52) goes all in, next small stack ($28.25) calls all in, Mr $3500 calls, and I call.
Flop comes 10 K Q of diamonds. Sure enough I nail the flop and because I'm such a great player my oppoent also caught a very large piece of it. I check my flush, and MR $3500 bets $100 - I call - I want to make sure a diamond doesn't turn before I get aggressive. Turn comes the 8 of spades. Jackpot! Now I've got a pair of 8s and the flush! Mr $3500 bets's $200, even though we're playing online and this is my first hand I've got a great read on him and I know he doesn't have me beat. I raise all in another $648. Mr $3500 calls.
River comes a 3 of diamonds. Yes! A six flush and a pair, best hand ever!
Mr $3500 has Qs10h
Short Stack ($52) has As2s
Other Short Stack ($28.25) has Jh9h (Flopped the straight)
I now have $2080.25 (play money).
I get out of that room and so I don't have a chance to lose it all. Then I go to bed, after playing one hand for the night, up nearly $1100.
I'm the man, let's hear it for me.
/tone
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:51 pm GMT by 1988 TR
suitedaces - Easy question. Heads up? Yes or no?
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:22 am GMT by suitedaces84
Well, I'm not too keen on heads up, but I'll tell you what, make 8 clones of yourself teach them how to play poker exactly as you do. Then, pile into your mom's minivan and ask your mom to drive you all to my apt. I'll clear off my kitchen table and give you a game...seriously though this is my last post in this thread it's just getting stupid and immature.
Before I call it a thread I'll summarize this thread for anyone who doesn't want to waste their time reading it: Starts out with a very interesting bluff in a live game (an excellent contribution to the forum by the way). TR high-jacks a once useful thread and posts an ugly hand in which he won over 1K. The hand is called ugly by several members. TR takes offense and justifies his ugly play by challenging his critics to play him heads up. No one is interested in this heads up challenge.
Now, to look to the future of this thread TR thinks he has won the battle of words because no one is interested in this heads up challenge. When, in reality, no one cares.
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:51 am GMT by 1988 TR
I'll tell you what. Keep talking shit, but don't back it up.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:42 am GMT by Verdi
| 1988 TR wrote: | | suitedaces84 wrote: | | Verdi wrote: | | No, I can't say I like anything from that hand. Sorry. |
I agree with that. No offense, but that was a disgusting hand. Especially preflop. 4 players in for 5xBB with A 2s, 8 6s, Q To, and J 9s. Out of those 4 there's 0-2 playable hands depending on position without a preflop raise. |
You guys are funny - Do you only know how to play AA or KK? |
Yeah, I might not be able to beat Phil Ivey but I won't play 86s anyway. With suited pocket cards I think you only have 4% chance to make a flush. First there's around 11% to make at least a four to flush on the flop and then from there you have 35% chance to complete it.
You need to take down BIG pots when you do catch that flush to justify playing all those unprofitable hands. And since I play limit the chances of making it a really big profit is not so great so I'll pass. If I'm on a roll I might play 89s or something just because I'm feeling generous.
The last hour I played last night I wrote down every starting hand. I only really played 8 hands out of 59. I saw the flop from the BB a few more times though... And once from the SB I took a chance with Q4 and flopped two pairs and took down a nice pot by my standards. All in all I saw 22% of the flops (4 checks from the BB and a long shot from the SB in an unraised pot that went well) during that hour while I won 24xBB. I think I won 6 of the 8 pots I really tried to play. My starting hands were all like AKo, KK, KK, JJ, KQs, QJo, A10o... I even thought about folding the QJo despite being in late position. Yes, I might be too tight. But playing marginal hands is the fastest way to go on tilt. 86s won't hit anything most of the time. If you're lucky you will catcha a middle pair or something. One that could cost you a lot of money, or at least give you some very difficult choices to make.
But whatever works, right? You seem to do well with your tactic. I stick to mine. Maybe I won't win as much, but I won't lose as much either.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:20 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I hear you Verdi. I play different depending on the game. I certainly don't play this loose in tournaments (All about surviving) or structured games.
It just works well at this particular no limit game where a few big pops can make up for several small loose calls.
I also apologize to any one I ma have offended with my attitude. I'll try to simmer down now.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:58 pm GMT by suitedaces84
| 1988 TR wrote: | | I also apologize to any one I ma have offended with my attitude. I'll try to simmer down now. |
1) If this is in anyway directed at me, thanks.
2) Congrats on beating Phil Ivey
3) I realize I made the mistake in my earlier posts of not backing up my agrument with facts and numbers, so here goes...
I was not the least bit bothered by the fact that you called for $20 extra preflop, it was the fact that you called a 3xBB raise that I objected to. I don't care what stakes you're playing, it's about how many big blinds the bets are.
I'll start this analysis by giving you a HUGE benefit and assume that you are playing with someone fishy enough to double you up if your flush hits, and and to further handicap you I'll assume that if your flush hits you will win everytime *(note this are two huge benefits for analysis purposes, that are not realistic)
88% of the time you will flop a three flush or worse and lose 2BB per time
.8% of the time you will flop a flush, and gain 100BB per time
2.1% of the time you will flop a four flush and turn your flush, and gain 100BB per time
2.1% of the time you will flop a four flush and river your flush, and gain 100BB per time
7.1% of the time you will flop a four flush and miss your flush and lose 32BB
88*-2 = -176
.8*100 = 80
2.1*100 = 210
2.1*100 = 210
7.1*-32 = -227
total +97BB
This figure is assuming the absolute best possible senario every single time, so it's not realistic. I did it out this way to prove that even if you have everything working in your favor you can still barely turn a profit. In practice at least one out of those one hundred times he will beat your flush and you will pay 99BB as opposed to winning 100, this brings the total to -102BB. Also out of the 5 times you make a flush at least 2 he will not call your all in, bringing the total down even more. You get the idea, it was a bad call preflop. Don't take it personally.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:33 pm GMT by 1988 TR
Suited aces -
A few points that you are missing though :
1) I can still hit other hands other than a flush! That is a big part you're missing there. I can catch a straight, trips, pair, etc.
2) Bluffing. I am extremely good at reading hands by betting patterns, playing style, etc. I play A LOT of poker - Not much I haven't seen. So I do take a lot of pots down with nothing. I don't risk large amounts doing it, but I will bet enough to make a call very painful if my opponnet has only an average hand.
These are the hands that I am taking down huge pots on - They are very hard hands to read for the opponents.
Keep in mind I play different depending on the game. At a $1000 buy in table, some people play tight, some people play scared, etc. I can get away with more.
This style would get me killed in a tournament or a structured game, so I adjust accordingly.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:58 pm GMT by suitedaces84
Now you got me wondering. What will you throw away in that situation? How big does a preflop raise have to be for you to fold 8 6s?
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:12 pm GMT by 1988 TR
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | Now you got me wondering. What will you throw away in that situation? How big does a preflop raise have to be for you to fold 8 6s? |
I have no idea. But $20 aint enough.
Posted Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:07 pm GMT by galahad_187
1988 TR : what site were you playing on? im just curious.
haven't seen any good games for that big of cash online (not that i can play in any with my current bank roll)
and nice read - even if it wouldn't work every time your right in that he probably would have bet less or more if he had the flush.
Posted Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:56 pm GMT by tame_deuces
Just an answer to the original post, do you call a 1400$ bet when you have the king high flush and you fear the ace high flush. I really guess this is what you can expect if you play in a game you can't afford to be in, or where the losses will hurt?
Posted Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:33 pm GMT by gol4pro
As far as the original post goes.... I don't see how the K high flush doesn't call.
I watch 50/100 NL pn RV, and people would call that every single time. Hell, I've seen people all in with bottom set before.
The set is an easy fold there, but the K high flush is very, very questionable. If he has AA and the board is A8744 and someone goes all in, will he fold out of fear of pocket 4's? Give me a break.
Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:52 am GMT by majortato
Replying to original topic as well.
I also believe the King high flush MUST CALL!
He's got the second nuts. If the guy who went all-in had the nuts, then he wouldn' t have gone all-in. The all-in is obviously an overbet to make ppl fold their better hands. If the guy really had the nuts, he would probably be trying to milk everyone who was in for all they've got. Possibly a check-raise or just a big, but callable bet. If I had the nuts, I definitely would NEVER go all-in unless I was positive someone would call.
plus with King high flush, the chances of someone having Adxd is quite low (though it happens). If you're not there to gamble, why play poker?
Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:46 pm GMT by 1988 TR
I agree - The non call with the K high flush was scared money.
Posted Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:50 pm GMT by TheMinigambler
I would have to be at the table to know exactly how I would react, but it seems like the All-in move was strong enough to convince everyone at the table that he had the nut flush.
I probably would have folded and I'll tell you why -A lot of people talk about "the worst hand in poker". Everyone knows what it is and they will always tell you "72 off suit is the WORST hand in poker". Actually, that is false. I say the worst hand in poker is the second best hand at the table.
If I was confident with my read and put this guy on Ax diamonds, I wouldn't have any problem laying it down....infact, I would have been feeling really good about laying it down. No tears. Anyone who says "You have to call" isn't as good as they say or think they are.
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:34 pm GMT by Skribbles
1 rule I always play by, is that if there are 4 to a flush on the board, ALWAYS make a stiff bet. Doesn't matter if you have the nuts or nothing. A strong bet with 4 to a flush will scare of almost any player who has less than a Q high flush and you pick up a pot quite easily.
As for that hand though.... I couldn't lay down the K high flush, definitly not with the board only having 3.
Posted Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:44 am GMT by oxdate
Dnt knw wot u guys r talkin about. Ofcourse the mre advanced poker player calls a 20$ raise with his suited crds, pot odds dictate that on occasion this will be a v profitable play. as for the initial topic of folding the K flush, well wot can i say a complete muppet who probablly shouldnt have been plyin on that level table in the first place. No offence though because i can understand ur reasoning for the guy not to call, with a bit mre experience of being in that situation though u would all change ur minds.
by the way if ny 1 wnts to play
pacific: quadgus
PP: XXGUSXX111
later.
Posted Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:59 am GMT by JohnnyCache
We can play sometime, but you have to agree that should you win, you will use my money to buy a vowel.
Posted Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:39 pm GMT by raisebot
Even though I initially created it, I haven't responded to this thread in a while.
I have 1 question for whoever here said that a call should have definitely been made-
Have any of you ever played $2/$5 blind no limit- at a live table in a casino?
Because a comparison really can not and must not be made with some internet $0.50/$1.00 game. Not raggin on internet play or anything, but it's 2 different ballgames.
Everyone saying the the guy that laid down the flush was playing with "scared money", my opinion is just the opposite. If I was playing with scared money, I would call no problem (I believe more scared money players are looking for that "1 big pot"- a solid player will make tough (and sometimes incorrect) laydowns, and try to outplay his opponent. It's been said that slow and steady wins the race (until you are in that sacred position of control)...
my 2 cents... :D
Posted Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:07 pm GMT by 1988 TR
They guy with the king high flush played it badly - I would have raised big on the turn to see where I was at. He set himself up for that tough decision on the river by being a calling station the whole way through.
Still not sure why he coudln't have called though - I have called bigger bets with baby flushes..... One against Phil Ivey when his two pair 8/9's went all in on the turn when I hit a flush with 3  6 .
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:07 am GMT by Silhouette
| suitedaces84 wrote: | | There's nothing worse than a no limit game where you've got more money in front you than you're willing to lose. |
I'm going to vote this as one of the most insightful things said on this thread. Nothing groundbreaking, but it's simply true.
Kudos, suited.
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:59 am GMT by [psyonix]
| 1988 TR wrote: | | I'll tell you what. Keep talking shit, but don't back it up. |
For what it's worth, I agree with your play. I don't like to give up my blinds easily, no matetr what the stakes are. Given that you were raised a little, it just means a little more you'll have to let go of it the flop doesn't hit. I tell myself "look, just call this to protect your blind, if you don't hit, cut your losses and duck out". Then again, I'm a fairly loose player depending on the situation.
Posted Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:11 am GMT by Soup_dog
| Silhouette wrote: | | suitedaces84 wrote: | | There's nothing worse than a no limit game where you've got more money in front you than you're willing to lose. |
I'm going to vote this as one of the most insightful things said on this thread. Nothing groundbreaking, but it's simply true.
Kudos, suited. |
I agree.
Because my bankroll has recently taken a huge dive, I have started buying into tables with just half of the standard amount. (i.e. $5 instead of $10) I still play tight, but I am much more willing to call big bets into me or even go "all-in". As a result, I have been winning many pots where someone's strong bet would have normally made me fold.
Also, once I triple up my original buy-in, I cash it out and move to another table.
My bankroll has been skyrocketing ever since I adopted this strategy.
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