Folding on the turn and showing cards. Legal? |
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Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:56 am GMT by Garth Vader
Me and some friends had a tourney last night and i committed what i know to be wrong, or bad etiquette, but not illegal, or so i believe.
I was low on chips, well the shortest left in a game with 8 people left. A friend, who was chip leader, extremely loose, and very aggressive, was raising very hard all the time.
Anyway. I hit pocket 4s pre-flop, I called the BB knowing my friend would raise (he would have re-raised me, had i raised, and cost me alot of chips). So he raises, i call.
The flop comes down, K, 4, 2. Lovely i think, i've hit trips, what luck. There was still 5 people in the hand. (mainly loose people waiting to pair their 7 & 2 on the river!).
Yet again, i don't bet, i know my friend will raise quite hard. Strangely he checked as well, and 3 of us including him end up calling someone elses bet.
I've limped in, and felling happy, my friend (who checked) i decided had hit the K as he is fairly easy to read. I assumed he was going to bet, very hard soon, and put me all in, which i had no problem with. Here comes the bad part...
The turn is a King! Jeeesus i think, I'm beat, he bets hard and someone calls. Now okay, its wrong, but i'm quite peed off at this point and want to show my friend i know he's beaten my trips. When i fold i flip my 4s and say well done.
He flips out and gets quite angry, which is completely understandable, and personally i was glad, as it was the reaction i wanted!
I just want to know is this considered legal. There was still people in the game, and it continued to the river. I know if you show a hand, its dead. So what the difference?
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Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:19 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | | I know if you show a hand, its dead. So what the difference? |
The main problem with what you did was there was still other people in the hand left to act. You've given them more information than they had prior to your folding.
If it was heads up, and you folded and showed, it's no problem because the hand is over.
Can I ask why you folded a full house here? You really afraid of quad Kings? Or K-duece? Doubtful he has K4 since three of the fours are out.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:16 pm GMT by american mutt
oh geez man, you should have been happy. You had a sneaky
full house to his obvious trip Kings. Play that hand next time.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:48 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Garth Vader wrote: | | He flips out and gets quite angry, which is completely understandable, and personally i was glad, as it was the reaction i wanted! |
Well, you shouldn't expose your cards with others still in the hand. If someone else was holding 24, you just showed them they only have at best two outs remaining to make a boat.
However, I don't know why you were glad. As the others pointed out, you very likely folded the winner.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:04 pm GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | If someone else was holding 24, you just showed them they only have at best two outs remaining to make a boat.
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Even if they caught a duece on the river, they'd still lose if the other guy had a King in his hand.
| Quote: | | Now okay, its wrong, but i'm quite peed off at this point and want to show my friend i know he's beaten my trips. |
That's still the best quote in this entire thread. Where do you live? I want you to come over to my house and keep folding those full houses!
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:18 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| Nut Flush wrote: | | Even if they caught a duece on the river, they'd still lose if the other guy had a King in his hand. |
Yeah I guess I missed that part. 
| Nut Flush wrote: | | I want you to come over to my house and keep folding those full houses! |
Given my prior analysis, looks like I'd get a reserved seat in that game too. 
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:17 am GMT by Garth Vader
Well i must have told the story wrong, no one would fold in that situation. I think the flop was the same, but didn't contain the 4, i think the four came on the river after my fold... I'm puzzled now... 
Hey it was a 12 hour session! Either way i suppose the story is irrelevant, it was in a roundabout way, to see the legality of showing your cards while there are people still in the hand.
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:33 pm GMT by MasterShake
| Garth Vader wrote: | Well i must have told the story wrong, no one would fold in that situation. I think the flop was the same, but didn't contain the 4, i think the four came on the river after my fold... I'm puzzled now...
Hey it was a 12 hour session! Either way i suppose the story is irrelevant, it was in a roundabout way, to see the legality of showing your cards while there are people still in the hand. |
Which may not be illegal (depending on the rules where you play), but is definitely rude and unethical.
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:14 pm GMT by american mutt
| Garth Vader wrote: | Well i must have told the story wrong, no one would fold in that situation. I think the flop was the same, but didn't contain the 4, i think the four came on the river after my fold... I'm puzzled now...
Hey it was a 12 hour session! Either way i suppose the story is irrelevant, it was in a roundabout way, to see the legality of showing your cards while there are people still in the hand. |
A general rule to go by anywhere is don't show your cards til
the bets are called, and it's showdown time.
Posted Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:41 pm GMT by dakine
Hmmm..., sounds like a Tilt !  Do you often get "Really" pissed off and show your emotions when you get a bad beat? I hope not. Bite your tounge (just don't bleed ) and act cool. Then go home and kick the Cat. (I hate Cats) 
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:00 am GMT by Chabnock
Personaly I think you are to young to play poker with that type of action, and someone should have taken you outside and kick you whimp ass.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:03 am GMT by Chabnock
Someday you will understand why you should not do that. you will cost someone the pot because of you stupidity. And might even get you killed if the pot is big enough and the guy is wired on drugs or something. SO grow up..... or leave the poker world.
Posted Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:06 am GMT by Chabnock
One more post.
DAM I HATE these little punks playing poker...
They have no idea what they are doing or what their action can cause to happen before the end of the night. I have seen someone get knifed for something almost like this.
Posted Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:00 pm GMT by Abused Rib
I'm pretty sure you get "penalized" for doing that. The penalty could be posting a BB on the next hand without a choice or even matching the current pot that you completely ruined. Never show your cards in a live hand. You could get yourself hurt or heavily penalized if you were playing in any kind of serious game.
Posted Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:31 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Never show your cards in a live hand. You could get yourself hurt or heavily penalized if you were playing in any kind of serious game. |
This is true. I think chab is being a little tough on you, but he does have a point. You have to learn to take the beats too. I've taken my share and if I need to vent, I usually walk away from the table and out of earshot to do so. You can't let your emotions rule your play. Keep a level head and let that hand go. I think that you made a mistake in the hand, were frustrated by your friend's constant firing at the pot and therefore made a blunder. It's okay to make mistakes in a friendly home game, but with a different group of people or in a casino, it could be a completely different ball game. What you did was not only a breach of etiquette, but also showed your opponent that they'd gotten to you. Something tells me that it only went downhill for you from there. It's okay to be on tilt, but you have to hide it or other players will extort it.
Posted Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:41 pm GMT by fonzerelli_79
you shouldnt show your cards
more worrying is you folding the full house - the kings made your full house man. Thats exactly what you wanted - him believing he had the best hand 
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