Poker Superstars "Finals" |
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Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:29 am GMT by cmill
***Spoiler*** (if you haven't seen it
Is it me, or did the rest of the guys seem very frustrated at Gus' style of play? I realize that the footage is edited, but man, he really mowed them down. I wish that I could draw out like that.
To someone who didn't know better, Gus' style would seem like the way you should play poker.
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Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:16 am GMT by Imajica1975
Yeah I saw it yesterday.
But I would have to disagree about Gus being the way to play poker though.
"Gus," is the guy who goes all-in to the river with J  3  , only to pick up .
You know the type.
"Gus," is the guy who drives you crazy at your home games because he ALWAYS seems to hit his draw, no matter what ass hand he raises with.
You know the type.
"Gus" is the guy who NEVER seems to come back from the slots without somehow winning. Me, if I play slots, I am lucky if I only lose half of what I brought.
But you know the type.
... Look, I'm not saying Gus sucks. He obviously doesn't. But some people are just born with that intangible quality when it comes to "luck." I just don't see any knid of superior strategy coming from him though.
I just see a man who is very lucky with the cards, who also has the strategy of the game nailed down. Very tough. Must be nice...
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:31 am GMT by Dave B
I think you arent seeing the forest for the trees when it comes to Gus's success. There is no luck involved.
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:43 am GMT by Imajica1975
Saying there is no luck involved, is like saying there is no strategy involved.
Of course there is strategy.
Of course there is luck.
...and in this torney, Gus was firing on all cylinders in the strategy AND luck department.
Seriously, did you watch this? Well even if you didn't, it is typical Gus.
10 people at the table. Gus is on the button. Raise and re-raise before Gus. Gus has a j4 . So naturally, Gus raises and then promptly hits his flush on the river.
If "Gus" was in the form of Joe Whoever at your home game... well, you know what he would be.  There are plenty of threads here on the proverbial "Gus."
...but whatever. He won. I just want you to watch the tape and tell me that he wasn't the luckiest sonofagun doing it though.
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:46 pm GMT by NickFlynn
I watch most of it. If anyone seriously thinks that Gus wins because he catches lucky cards, they should go find him and show him how to play.
The editing of the show makes it look a lot crazier than I'm sure it really is. I'm sure for every hand they showed Gus winning with some crazy cards, there were 10 times that he laid down his trash after the flop and saved a bunch of chips. I think Gus makes just unbelievable reads on the flop (when he is on his game) and that's the real key to his game.
On the Travel Channel overlapping with this show was a WPT event that came down to Hoyt Corkins and Gus heads up. Both of those guys play pretty unconventional poker in my estimation, although very different styles.
I'm not a poker historian or anything, but from what I've read, Devilfish Ulliot was the first big time player to play the kind of style that Gus uses. I personally think that Hansen is a great player and that he can make that style work even though it goes completely against the book. Almost anyone else who tries it is going to crash pretty hard.
- Nick
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:20 pm GMT by howzit
I'm in the "I  Gus" camp.
Chip's last stand with Kings just shows Gus' philsophy on tournament poker. (On a side note, people are flaming Chip for slow playing Kings but he's playing to win $1mm and winning the blinds does almost nothing for that motive)
So, Chip moves in w/Kings and Gus takes a few minutes going through the math to see where his hand stands. In the end, he takes the slight dog to bust Chip. That decision's all math. No luck.
When facing big bets with hands on the come, I ATTEMPT to make mathmatically sound decisions like this.
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:20 pm GMT by Imajica1975
Interesting replies...
Although I have considered the editing of televised games to be the number one reason noobs play every hand, I had not considered this as a possible explanation for Gus.
Still... I believe it takes a certain kind of rare person to be able to play the Gus way and not lose your shirt in like 5 minutes.
Yes, Gus is probably one of the best poker players in the world. But I still stand by my original statement that Gus is probably one of those guys that just sits there and rolls 7's one after another, and that (while being only one of many factors) is a big reason for his success.
C'mon... you guys know the odds... Gus stares 20 percent odds in the face and hits every other time. Even the other "masters" are starting to get mad at Gus the same way experienced poker players get mad at the... well, you know the type.
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:27 pm GMT by NickFlynn
I Gus too.
I think he the most interesting and innovative players out there. Most of pros you see on TV play pretty much the same way - they play solid, fundamental poker and they rely on being able to read the other players better than the next guy. Some of them are little more or less aggressive, or more or less tight - but basically, they are all playing the same kind of game.
Gus just turns the whole thing upside down. He actually creates fear and doubt in the other players because they can't really get a read on him. He has uncanny instincts and usually has a really good read on where he stands on the hand, especially after the flop. One thing I've noticed with him is that he usually knows when he is beat, and shuts down before he really hurts himself. He'll take a chance when he knows he is an underdog, but he is usually a 2-1 dog, not an 8-1 dog.
In the tourney on Sunday, I think he really only sucked out twice on hands. Once was against Barry Greenstein (AJ versus AQ) and then the flush draw against KK. Both times, he was playing to eliminate the other player, and he wasn't putting more than 10% of his stack at risk. Not text book calls, but not really horrible plays if you are sitting with a big stack.
- Nick
Posted Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:47 pm GMT by NickFlynn
| Imajica1975 wrote: | Interesting replies...
Although I have considered the editing of televised games to be the number one reason noobs play every hand, I had not considered this as a possible explanation for Gus.
Still... I believe it takes a certain kind of rare person to be able to play the Gus way and not lose your shirt in like 5 minutes.
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That's the absolute truth.
I think the other part of it is that if he was playing against a bunch of fish, it wouldn't work nearly as well because:
A) morons wouldn't be intimidated by the guy
B) Gus wouldn't be able to read them the same way he can the pros
- Nick
Posted Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:11 pm GMT by vig0r
If anyone missed the show as I did, you can download the torrent here http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&id=164691
I'm eager to see how Gus played this time.
Posted Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:19 am GMT by Nut Flush
| Quote: | Still... I believe it takes a certain kind of rare person to be able to play the Gus way and not lose your shirt in like 5 minutes.
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One key factor you're missing here is that all we see on TV is the final table for most of these tournaments(with a few exceptions). Final table strategy is much different than the early stages of a tourney. If he truly was "lucky" as you say, we wouldn't see him at as many final tables as we have. I do believe you need some luck to get there, like AK vs. an underpair, but you can't do it on luck alone.
The other thing to note is the money he may lose playing a so called "trash" hand is more than likely recouped ten fold when he does have a monster. He gets more out of his big hands than tighter players would simply for the fact that you never know with Gus. Let's say your on the BB with AJ and the small blind moves all in for about half your stack. Would you call against Gus? Probably. What about against someone like Dan Harrington? I doubt it. It's all about the image.
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:24 am GMT by TGuns
Did anyone notice the all-time record high buy-in for this tournament was $400,000? Does anyone know how it is possible to have a $400,000 buy-in with only 1m going to the winner??? That's the eqivalent of a $20 buy-in in a home game among 8 people, and taking home a whopping $50 (instead of $100+)
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:30 am GMT by ChkDeezNuts
| TGuns wrote: | | Did anyone notice the all-time record high buy-in for this tournament was $400,000? Does anyone know how it is possible to have a $400,000 buy-in with only 1m going to the winner??? That's the eqivalent of a $20 buy-in in a home game among 8 people, and taking home a whopping $50 (instead of $100+) |
Because it was a series.....you made money in each individual "heat".....If you won one of the rounds...you got 250K....
Gus Hansen earned about 2.2 million from his 400k buyin.
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:20 am GMT by TGuns
that makes more sense. I feel bad for those that didn't make it, and busted the entire $400,000.
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:22 pm GMT by ChkDeezNuts
| TGuns wrote: | | that makes more sense. I feel bad for those that didn't make it, and busted the entire $400,000. |
The biggest loser was Doyle Brunson....He earned back only 200k of his 400k....
Posted Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:52 pm GMT by tame_deuces
| Imajica1975 wrote: | Saying there is no luck involved, is like saying there is no strategy involved.
Of course there is strategy.
Of course there is luck.
...and in this torney, Gus was firing on all cylinders in the strategy AND luck department.
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Isn't he an old backgammon player? Seriously, some of those guys got betting nerves made of the purest steel.
Apart from that one my poker buddies has a peculiar playing style that on the surface looks similar (I ain't saying he is as good or anything!), he reads people good, takes advantage of people who are clearly playing by 'the books' and masks his own cards with a betting pattern that really tells nobody nothing at all, and I can atleast inform everybody that he is one tough player to be up against, when you don't know if a guy is gonna flip a boat or a pair of ducks, the value of systematic play dwindles somewhat. And I guess if someone has got the nerves to do this with millions at stake, they can really push people around.
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