Situation question - flip cards and thinking outloud... |
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Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:23 am GMT by TGuns
Question about stating your action and following up on it---
Situation: short stack goes all in, action folds around the table to the dealer who at the time was 2nd or maybe chip leader. Dealer hadn't touched his chips or moved in yet because he was still thinking about it. Then, dealer flipped his cards face-up on the table and I can't remember exactly what was said, something like "Let me think about a call here..." Short stack argued that since he made a "move" to call by flipping his cards, he had to do it. The dealer, seeing short stack's joy in the supposed "call" folded his hand. Argument revolved basically around the dealer flipping his cards face-up and thinking outloud about the call.
So, dealer flipped his cards face-up - ok or no? And the dealer thinking outloud - what's the difference if the dealer was to just say "I'm gonna think about this" vs. "I might call here" with actually stating the word...
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Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:42 am GMT by fiezk
Imho I think this should be considered as either a call, or an attempt to cheat. The only situation in which the flop comes up is if the dealer calls.
Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:00 am GMT by TGuns
fiezk - I think I miscommunicated it actually... The dealer did NOT flip any card from the deck, he flipped over his own pocket cards.
Posted Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:02 pm GMT by YosemiteMark
Every home game has different rules, but
Robert's Rules of Poker (http://www.pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRulesHome.htm) is about as 'definitive' a source as you can find.
The definition of an 'action' in this source is:
| Quote: | | ACTION: A fold, check, call, bet, or raise. For certain situations, doing something formally connected with the game that conveys information about your hand may also be considered as having taken action. Examples would be showing your cards at the end of the hand, or indicating the number of cards you are taking at draw. |
To me, flipping over the cards falls under the 'doing something... that conveys information', and thus does constitute a call. In any case, revealing your cards before the betting action for that round is completed is always considered bad form.
Posted Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:20 pm GMT by metal1
in most casinos i've played at his hand would be considered mucked. if you flip over your cards without stating your action, your hand is considered dead. you can make your home rules however you want but its an amatuerish(sp?) play and is considered a fold in every game i've played in.
Posted Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:01 pm GMT by wEbMaStEr
exposed cards should be considered mucked.
obviously this is unless he had called the all in and no one else was to play.
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:16 am GMT by TGuns
Good points. I thought the his hand would be mucked, didn't really say anything because it wasn't my home game and I wasn't involved in the hand. I'm sure he wouldn't do it again just based on the arguments it caused this time.
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:30 am GMT by Haps
In any event it was not a call. There are 2 rulings here. His hand is either mucked for exposing or it is live until he declares his action.
This depends on the rules you play by. In some places(casino's included) this is a legal move to attempt to gain information from your opponent while decided what you will do. In some places this is not allowed.
So depends on the rules of the house you were playing at. But it wasn't a call.
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:37 am GMT by :D
This same thing happened to me. I had 4 of kind 6's, some other guy had full house but was debating my all in bet. He matched my stack, put in by the pot, but not in. Then looked me in the eyes and flipped 'em. When he flipped them I flipped mine, (assuming he called) then a huge argument broke out. Basiclly half the table agreed with me and half with the other guy. So they all said to do a show down for it, which i disagreed with. Of course, I lost it.
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:53 am GMT by Gravely_ill
I just found this thread after posting the same question!! I do not know the answer, but I know where I learned this Dirty trick from. And its stated as a legitimate play. Doyles, Super System. The bible of all poker players.
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:17 am GMT by Idaho
| :D wrote: | | This same thing happened to me. I had 4 of kind 6's, some other guy had full house but was debating my all in bet. He matched my stack, put in by the pot, but not in. Then looked me in the eyes and flipped 'em. When he flipped them I flipped mine, (assuming he called) then a huge argument broke out. Basiclly half the table agreed with me and half with the other guy. So they all said to do a show down for it, which i disagreed with. Of course, I lost it. |
This is a call definately and he should pay up.
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:09 am GMT by Haps
| :D wrote: | | This same thing happened to me. I had 4 of kind 6's, some other guy had full house but was debating my all in bet. He matched my stack, put in by the pot, but not in. Then looked me in the eyes and flipped 'em. When he flipped them I flipped mine, (assuming he called) then a huge argument broke out. Basiclly half the table agreed with me and half with the other guy. So they all said to do a show down for it, which i disagreed with. Of course, I lost it. |
The other lesson to be learned here is to not expose your cards until all betting on the hand has completed. It cost you a pot this time. Next time I bet you hold onto your cards and ask if he is calling or folding.
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:33 am GMT by Fat Tony
the moral of the story is.........add a house rule to cover this situation.
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