Automatic fold right? Or am I just too tight? |
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Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:26 pm GMT by Jauron
Another hand to consider, this one was pretty easy for me, but maybe I'm just too soft?? I got a couple of strange looks from the table.
I just took down a decent size pot, playing NL cash game, $100 buy in. I have about $195. I look down at AK (not suited) and I'm first to act, I raise to 15 next guy who's been calling off his money for a while considers it and then decides to go all in for $30. Fold to the another guy who I consider to be a very solid player who goes all in, he's got my covered, folded back to me. I had every intention of calling the $15, but now I have to play AK for my stack with 2 reraises?
I think about it for a minute, and tell myself unless I can put him on a weaker Ace, I can't call this, there really is no reason to call this anyway they both might have me beat. This guy had laid down to a big bet earlier to me saying I'm going to show you some respect and fold and it turns out we'd have split the pot. I tell him it's my turn to show some respect and fold face up.
He flips over AK and acts a little suprised I folded mine.
To me it wasn't even a hard decision, I just wanted to make sure it was a sound decision before I did it, that is why it took me so long to fold it. I only had $15 invested. A couple of other people looked a little suprised as well....
It got me thinking, was my fold bad? Surely I have to lay it down there? I mean if we are switched around and I made that move he'd have to lay it down right?
In that situation I'd have to have QQ,KK or AA to want to call as a rule, especially when I consider the guy who moved solid.
Thoughts?
In the end we would have chopped up the $15 from the other guy who had moved in with 10,8 (???) when AK made a straight.
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Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:17 pm GMT by bigrazor
i fold AK every now and again too. it is not a calling hand as much as a raising hand. to go all in with it is much more common than to call all in with it. this guy could have any pair, which has you slightly beaten, and can afford to race cuz he has you outchipped. you cant afford to race with less chips. i think it was a great lay down. if you had him covered, i might consider the call (b/c the pot odds are good in a race situation with two others in) and if he had raised less than all your chips i would have moved all in. but he played his AK perfectly and was just fortunate to be in better position in this case.
nick
Posted Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:47 pm GMT by howzit
good players DO NOT rereaise all-in w/aces or kings.
that being said, why risk your entire stack on probably a coin flip. Wait until you get the better of it, especially if you're better than 70% on the table.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:37 am GMT by Iron Butt
I think it's clearly a good fold.
My only issue is why show the cards? Give the table a reason to think you can be blown off a strong hand and someone's going to try it... which may work to your advantage or may not. Maybe just say "nice raise" or something.
The only time I ever show my cards is sometimes when I bet a decent pair and get no callers preflop... if they want to think I only bet with a strong pair, that's fine with me. And that's probably a mistake too LOL.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:10 am GMT by Jauron
I told him and table, next time I'll call and turn over Aces.
I didn't mind if people thought they could push me off of pots, in fact I raised that hand about the same amount I brought in big pairs with (the truth is on that table I didn't raise a lot anyway), the next time I brought in a hand for the same amount a guy tried to push me off of a pot by moving in and I called and flipped over Kings. His AJ didn't improve and he lost his stack. A $15 fold netted me $100 a few hands later.
I wasn't getting action when I raised, too many players knew I was solid and I just refuse to limp with big pairs, it was a calculated fold with a calculated show, letting the table know they could push me around, then showing them a monster next, needless to say I didn't get muscled around anymore after the kings.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:40 am GMT by snoogins47
Given the read of "solid" player I fold there most of the time.
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:24 am GMT by NickFlynn
| howzit wrote: | good players DO NOT rereaise all-in w/aces or kings.
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Really? I'm not saying I'm a good player, but if there is a pretty good sized pot already, I'll push them in.
In this particular case, with the pot being fairly small compared to the stacks, I might not have done it. I'll play it softer if I don't think I can get a call, but in general, my goal is to get all my money in the middle before the flop with AA or KK.
Do you think this is a bad idea? Why?
- Nick
Posted Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:08 am GMT by howzit
| NickFlynn wrote: | | howzit wrote: | good players DO NOT rereaise all-in w/aces or kings.
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but if there is a pretty good sized pot already, I'll push them in.
- Nick |
So would I, just not in this case. I'm putting myself in villains' seat and see this. . .
Pot size = $45
Stack size = $200
Moving in lets AK and QQ make a tough fold Yes folding queens here against a solid player is something I might do in Nick's position based on any tells
If i'm holding aces, i make it $50 to go and bring in QQ, AK, and hopefully get KK to move in. Then I'd push most flops.
Posted Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:09 pm GMT by markball
That is definitely a good fold. Ran into the same situation this past weekend in a no limit cash game, but i wasn't involved. Player 1 raised to 10, was reraised by player 2 to 20, player 3 (who is a tight agressive player) goes all in for like 250, player 1 folds, and player 2 calls with no problem and flips A K off suit. player 3 had aces.
I thought it was a horrible call because with how the guy was playing, he had to have at least a pair, and a high pair at that. Ace King at best is a coin flip in this situation, and he only had $20 invested in the pot, which should have been an easy fold.
I like your play a lot and would have folded immediately. The only way Ace King usually makes money is by getting a fish to call an all in with A Q or A J. However, I feel like that's how I make most of my money online. The problem is it hurts the 1 out of every 4 times when the fish wins.
However back to your situation....good fold. That play will make you money over the long run.
Posted Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:48 pm GMT by zeroswarm
Considering u just won a nice pot it was easier to lay down AKo than it would have been if, say, you were like $20 dollars down or something. In your situation I agree with laying it down. Why risk losing all your winnings and everything else aswell when your sitting pretty? If I was money down I probably would have thought, what the hell, and called!
Posted Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:29 pm GMT by ReRaIsE
I think it was a great fold. With this situation you have to consider that either your A's or K's or both are sitting in front of your opponents, making it doubly hard for you to win offsuit. QQ is likely to have you dominated.
I like your decision.
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