Posted Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:08 pm GMT by texasmike
You make a straight on the turn. You opponent probably has two big pair or trips. You have the same amount of chips. How much do you bet? A lot or a little?
To be more specific, it is the first hand of a single table no limit tourney. Everyone has $1000. You catch QT off suit. You and a couple of others limp in for the $10 blind.Next to button raises to $50, you call but everyone else folds. Flop comes K,J,4. You bet $200, opponent calls. Turn comes A. Fantastic! If opponent has two pair you are a 9 to 1 favorite. If he has trips, you are still almost 3 to 1. All in? Bet half? Bet small?
In the actual hand, I bet $400. Opponent, who had AK,called with his 2 big pair. River came A. Oh No! He made his boat. I checked, he went all in with the last $350, I was dead. Thats poker.
If I had gone all in on the turn, opponent might have folded, facing a possible staright. (I don't think so, but maybe.) If I had bet small, I would have been able to fold on the river, saving enough chips to keep playing.
Betting in the middle was to draw him in when I had favorable odds.
What do you think? How would you play it?
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Posted Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:37 pm GMT by Poker_Vendetta
Ok, with 9-1 to one against odds you should probably have bet BIGGER than that to drive them out. However, in the same sense you may want them to call so your best play is probably to make a bet large enough to make it about 11-1 against his money to play. For example 100 to 1100, in that case he would be calling with insufficient pot odds and you would make money because of it. So you bet TO drive him out, but probably hope to let him call. Hopefully you other guys see what I'm talking about, help me out here.
Posted Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:32 am GMT by JimTheBullet
I agree with Vendetta. Whenever you have the best hand you have to think about what your opponent has and therefore what his odds are of drawing out on you and you must bet enough to make the odds unfavourable for him.
The trouble with the hand you just described is that your opponent may well have thought that he was winning after the turn card. You called his bet before the flop and a hand that people often call pre flop raises with is a weak ace (anything from A9 down). he doesn't put you on AA but he may well think that his two pair is ahead of your pair of aces with no kicker or your two pair, since he has top two pair.
Obviously you knew you were winning the hand but in many cases I think your opponent would not know this. I think that in the spot you just described he may well have called an all in bet anyway.
In conclusion I would say go all in. If he calls and outdraws you then at least you knew he was doing it with unfavourable odds and therefore that if he carries on making plays like that then you will beat him (and others like him) in the long run.
One final point. Many times players justify calling bets by pointing to the implied odds that are available. This is a reasonable argument because players who had the best hand often call out of anger, or a bloody minded belief that you are bluffing, when the river potentially ruins their nuts. If you go all in you reduce the implied odds to 0 and hence take this consideration away.
Posted Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:39 am GMT by Dave B
I had something similar happen. I was holding AK and raised to 100TC. 2 callers, I was in middle position. Flop comes Q J 10 rainbow. The guy before me goes all in w/ his remaining 700TC, I have the nutz, so I raise to 1200TC. The guy behind me calls w/ his 1400TC.
Turn 6, river 6. One player had QQ the other 10 10. I am out. I dont think that I would play it any differently if I played the hand 100 times. Oh well.
Posted Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:45 pm GMT by Poker_Vendetta
Sorry, I misread pretty much there. Anyway, I agree with what BULLET said. The guy kind of doomed himself there on the flop, top pair top kicker certainly isn't a bad hand and I'm a little surprised he didn't reraise you. Perhaps he wanted to make you think HE had the draw. You didn't seem to have a read on what his cards were--in this case AK, so most likely he would call with two-pair in that spot even though he is a big underdog. All-in on the turn is probably the correct play, or just a really big bet.
Posted Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:13 pm GMT by JimiHWannaBe
i wouldve probably moved all in there my philosiphy on when you get the nuts is that your the favorite to win it so if he wants to see the next card ill make him pay bigtime to see it dont let him get a cheap card that could possibly make his hand if he calls your all in then its just a bad beat nothing you can do about it. the correct play is to go all in and pickup whats already in the pot dont let him make his hand.
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