Importance of raising high pairs preflop |
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Posted Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:52 pm GMT by kellerumd
Ok, the other night I was playing in a 2 table home tournament and on the fourth hand I was delt J 8 on big blind, everyone just called big blind around to me so I checked to see a flop. I considered raising but with 8 people at this table i was worried of a reraise. Anyways the flop came j 8 3 rainbow. Someone bet into me so i reraised, and then the perosn after me went all in. The original better then called. After some careful calculation I called and found that they were both holding AA. This now left them hoping for a 3 or a running pair. I ended up tripling up and taking the tournament because i was able to ride through with the chip lead.
Anyways, I know this is an extreme example but I think it is stupid not to raise preflop with a high pocket pair at a full table. There are some of my friends that question this play because a lot of the times I raise preflop I just end up taking the blinds and wasting a possibility to draw more chips out of them. Other than heads up, I want to know if anyone would recommend slow playing a high pocket pair preflop.
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Posted Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:55 pm GMT by galderon
I agree...it's better to take the blinds than lose to a suckout. If you have a high pocket pair and you don't raise preflop, you'll have three or four guys in the hand with you...and chances are, you're going to lose! When you have AA or KK, the kinds of hands you'll make the most money against are other pocket pairs, which are the kinds of guys that are going to stick around even with a preflop raise.
Last night at my home game I had pocket aces once...I raised preflop and everyone folded. That could have been better, but at least I made money! Later, I had pocket kings, I raised preflop and the only other guy who stayed had pocket eights. I got a huge pot off of him!
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:40 am GMT by Hockeytape
Agree with the post above. Except why would you raise with J-8 before the flop with all those people limping in? I would assume that I was probably behind at that point, especially against people calling from early position.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:10 am GMT by galderon
I have no idea why someone would raise with J8 preflop, but everyone needs to mix up their play sometime with a loose call or raise...especially if you have a large chip lead. If he raises and no-one reraises him, he's setting himself so he can bluff if even he totally misses the flop. Yeah, kind of a risky play, but sometimes the risky plays can pay off in a big way.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:42 am GMT by Soup_dog
Last night I was playing a low stakes table, .05/.10 (yep a nickle and dime table), when I was dealt pocket aces in the BB. UTG called and player 2 then raised to .30. Next two players called. I debated just calling and trying to suck more chips out but decided to listen to what everyone says, I raised to .80.
Amazingly, this instigated a raising war where 4 of the other 5 players ended up all in with about $30 in the pot. (Pretty big pot for nickle dime table.) Anyways, the flop came A ten ten giving me the nuts full house on the flop. I bet $10 to put the last player all-in and he called.
Then we showed our hands... it was unreal. Only one other player had a pocket pair, everyone else was shooting for a flush or str8 draw. I ended up pulling down a $50 pot. One of the best pots I have ever won in relation to the blinds. It's amazing what some people with chase after.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:06 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | Amazingly, this instigated a raising war where 4 of the other 5 players ended up all in |
The same thing happened to me yesterday online in .25/.50 NL cash game. I had aces on the button. UTG raised and player just ahead of me reraised. I was tempted to just call, but I wanted to "protect my pocket aces like they were my firstborn child" as Lederer has suggested. I reraised and ended up having both players reraise all in. Beautiful! One player had JJ and the other had QQ. I caught my ace on the flop and the race was over. What a huge pot ($105)!
I agree will all other posts. I've slow-played AA was when I was in the BB and everyone folded except the SB. I did raise, but only a minimum bump. He called, caught top pair (9's) and paid me pretty well when no other over cards came. Other than that instance, I've only limped with AA once and I got burned. Once bitten, twice shy. I'll never allow that to happen again.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:14 pm GMT by Buddha
| galderon wrote: | | I have no idea why someone would raise with J8 preflop, |
He never said he raised preflop. Reread hte post. He checked in the BB preflop, and flopped 2 pair, adn that is when he had bet and reraised.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:23 pm GMT by galderon
| Buddha wrote: | | He never said he raised preflop. |
Yeah I know. He said he was thinking about it:
| kellerumd wrote: | | I considered raising but with 8 people at this table i was worried of a reraise |
And then another guy asked why someone would do that:
| Hockytape wrote: | | why would you raise with J-8 before the flop with all those people limping in? |
So I replied with some reasons why someone would raise or consider raising. I know what I read.
Posted Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:54 pm GMT by proplayer
Keep awake when you hold Pocket pairs.
Lets presume player holds pocket kings and there is an ace on the flop. He raised pre-flop, driving off (he assumes) all hands except premium ones. Well, what is a premium non-pair hand? A hand with an ace, of course. But when that ace hits the flop, our holder of king-king suddenly loses all perspective. He puts his foes on underpairs or draws, even when his foes start raising like flags. Why? Because pocket kings come along as rarely as pocket aces, and he feels like he's owed.
Discipline in poker means more than having rigorous starting requirements. It also means getting away from hands when you are beat. If you can not fold aces when you know, with every fiber of your being, that they are just going to cost you bets upon bets, then you don't have discipline. If pocket kings leave you vulnerable to the stealth ace, you do not have common sense.
This forums moderator dont like my attached signature, It is maybe not well written,(wrote it in a hurry(sorry)) but I could not care less.This is not about fluent english or not, but about helping other people to become a better player.English is not my native language (again so sorry dear moderator) but I am working on it.Never the less the attach signature is accurate.
proplayer
Posted Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:30 pm GMT by martini
Proplayer, if your going to copy and paste the written work of others, it is appropriate to link to the article or post the credit to the author. Not doing so is considered plagiarism.
Posted Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:52 pm GMT by Fat Tony
the point wasn't about how good your english is or isn't as the case may be, you misunderstood my point entirely. my point was that i didn't think you wrote your other post, rather that you copied it from somewhere as seems to be the case. i was not trying to make fun of your english skills. if you want to copy/paste from somewhere, that's fine as long as you credit the original author.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:31 am GMT by ScanX
| martini wrote: | | Proplayer, if your going to copy and paste the written work of others, it is appropriate to link to the article or post the credit to the author. Not doing so is considered plagiarism. |
lol nice one
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:10 am GMT by BeerWench13
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
~Anonymous
Just wanted to give proper credit. 
Sorry, guys, I'm in a mood today.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:39 am GMT by JFG
LOL nice research martini. 
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:45 am GMT by BeerWench13
Is it possible he's John Vorhaus? 
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:54 am GMT by Soup_dog
| galderon wrote: | | Buddha wrote: | | He never said he raised preflop. |
Yeah I know. He said he was thinking about it:
| kellerumd wrote: | | I considered raising but with 8 people at this table i was worried of a reraise |
And then another guy asked why someone would do that:
| Hockytape wrote: | | why would you raise with J-8 before the flop with all those people limping in? |
So I replied with some reasons why someone would raise or consider raising. I know what I read. |
I think you misunderstood his post. He wasn't considering raising the J8. He couldn't understand why neither of the pocket aces made a big raise pre-flop. Because of their slow play, he was able to limp into the pot with garbage and steal the pot away from them. A classic example of why you should always raise a big pocket pair preflop.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:09 pm GMT by Sean_in_NJ
| kellerumd wrote: | | I considered raising but with 8 people at this table i was worried of a reraise |
| Soup_dog wrote: |
I think you misunderstood his post. He wasn't considering raising the J8. |
Well, he was, but it was a minor point in the post, and very likely a horrible play. Suited connectors, small pairs and *maybe* suited one-gappers, fine. Raise for value. But back on topic...
I actually have no problem with someone holding AA or KK to try a limp reraise from EP, but you have to be ready to let the hand go if you don't get the preflop action you expect and the flop goes badly for you. I've found this strategy works best against a LAG to your left who will read your limp as a sign of weakness. His raise thins the field for you, and you can reraise and build the pot.
Now, I can't understand the second player with AA in this hand limping, unless they were in very late position and were more concerned with protecting the hand on a later street instead of building the pot. *edit* And since it's NL, this doesn't make any sense either. He should push, take the money that's there and a bonus if he gets a caller. *edit*
Where were the 2 AA hands relative to the button?
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:24 pm GMT by Soup_dog
Your right Sean, my bad. Thats one screwed up hand.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:43 pm GMT by Scott1101
| proplayer wrote: | | It has been my living last 3 years.168k ahead this year (2005) |
NotsoProPlayer, You're about as likely to be 168 thousand dollars ahead in poker as the Pope is to win the New York Marathon this year.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:06 pm GMT by Always_Bored
| Scott1101 wrote: | | proplayer wrote: | | It has been my living last 3 years.168k ahead this year (2005) |
NotsoProPlayer, You're about as likely to be 168 thousand dollars ahead in poker as the Pope is to win the New York Marathon this year. |
I heard that he is one of the favourites this year.
Posted Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:29 pm GMT by age_of_sages
lol, John Vorhaus wouldn't have a sig like that.
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