Poker fad? or Poker for life? |
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Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:14 am GMT by PaulsonChips
Many people tell me that poker is just a craze and will end soon, but Im thinking even though this is true of fads, poker has a gambling factor tied into it. So it makes it addicting! Not to mention chip collecting!
So what do you guys take on this poker fad?
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Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:47 am GMT by wEbMaStEr
I think it will peak, and then probably fall back somewhat, as newbies lose their cash quickly it will seem like a bad idea for them to play any more.
But it will fall back to a level which is far above where it was 4 or 5 years ago as many new players manage their rolls and take poker as something they will play for the rest of their lives.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:29 am GMT by Verebrant
Being located in Denmark with no real 'tradition' for poker we've seen an extreme rise in popularity over the last year - and the last 5 to 6 months in particular since a national tv channel started showing Season 1 of the WPT.
The forums at that time showed considerable dedication to learning and improving the game, while now so many new players have come that start playing homegames or online without knowing that a pokerhand is made up of 5 cards.... And for live games the country is beeing flooded with chinese ABS chip sets selling at 100-150$ - and we're even seeing chinese clay sets! Well, actually they're ABS shells injected with clay...and it seems to be ordinary brown clay...
From havng 1 dedicated seller of poker equipment, all of a sudden websites are popping up like crazy - claiming to sell official casino chips w. metal added to obtain the official casino weight of 11.5g.....yeah right! So we're now where ebay has been for a while...and people buy them, some even beng willing to wait months for chip sets to arrive from China...
A lot of these new players will drop the game again, as it, apparently, is not the game that has caught their attention, but the fad...and the gambling factor instead of the skill factor. To illustrate this I followed a Danish online auction for the last week and a half. There were 10-15 sellers of mainly ABS chip sets and one seller of Small Stakes Hold'em - the chip sets were going like crazy....but not one bid on the book even though it was cheap by Danish standards (25$ and later slashed to about 15$)! So they want all the gadgets and show-off items, but not the theory...
All this being said I still think the game is going to come out of this with a larger number of players than were playing 6 months ago - but the craze right now is, in my opinion over the top.
Finally I have to say that I'm also a new player, who had an ABS set (which I just sold at a 50% profit)...but what has caught me is the homegame part of it - getting together with the guys playing for nickels and drinking a couple of beers...and that is something that will never go out of fashion 
/michael
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:32 am GMT by PaulsonChips
any links on these sets you are talking about?
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:48 am GMT by Verebrant
The Chinese clays?
I think the catalog from this site covers them pretty well:
Chinese clays
some of the Danish vendors can be found here:
Pokershop
Casino chips
/michael
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:04 am GMT by yeltzen
There will be like 4,000 people in this year's WSOP... the 2006 WSOP will be lucky to see 1,000 people. I think the more and more people watch and play NL Hold'em, the more they will realize that their hopes and dreams of NL Hold'em being a game primarily of skill are crashing down.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:31 am GMT by Grumbler
Having played poker (not holdem) for well over 40 years I have only seen the number of players increase. Obviously, in recent years the number has exploded due to TV. The most interesting part of this evolution, however, has been the social acceptance. In years past there was more of a "shady" atmosphere surrounding Poker which has all but disappiated with the vast majority of people.
I disagree that the WSOP in 2006 will be less than 1k since it was 8xx or so when Moneymaker won. Holdem has become fadish and the numbers will shrink as they do with most things but I'm not sure that it has run it's course yet.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:31 pm GMT by cowtown
I agree it'll contract a bit as things wear on, but I doubt I'll stop playing, so Poker +1 here.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:00 pm GMT by circlencircle
I wouldn't describe it as a fad, I think its more accurately described as trendy. In other words, its very popular right now but eventually the masses will grow tired of it and move on to something else. However, there will always be a percentage of the population that plays, as there always has been. I would agree with what some have said and say that generally poker will be left with a larger base than it had in the past.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:04 pm GMT by yeltzen
Now I that I've thought about it... the popularity will likely never die. Once Moneymaker won, that was it. There is simply no way to erase the memory of a complete beginner trouncing hundreds of pros to win $2.5 million plus all of the appearance fee $$$ he'll get later. And hey, I'm one of these people, so I am by no means absolving myself from blame. However, in terms of the actual quality of games, it's the worst thing that could ever happen.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:17 pm GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | I think the more and more people watch and play NL Hold'em, the more they will realize that their hopes and dreams of NL Hold'em being a game primarily of skill are crashing down. |
Followed by....
| Quote: | | However, in terms of the actual quality of games, it's the worst thing that could ever happen. |
Now, which is it? Is poker just luck as you implied in your first post or is it a game of skill that will be damaged due to players going all-in on the first hand of a tourney with 10 3 offsuit and sucking out on good hands?
You make no sense.
Back to topic, I have to say that eventually all of the kids who are playing right now to be cool will either bottom out and realize that they can't afford to follow this "trend" or they'll find something new to play. Personally, I've been playing poker since I was a kid, but, until recently nickel/dime stakes. I've always loved the game and I love that TV has made it popular enough for me to be able to find a game whenever I want. However, I do think this is a passing thing for many. We've already had a few players who were at every local game drop out of our "group". They rarely play now. I think this will happen with many, but I don't think that poker will ever go back to where it was prior to Moneymaker.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:24 pm GMT by yeltzen
After I reconsidered, I realized that the lack of skill involved in NL Hold'em is what draws them to it. If it took a lot of skill, the fad would have died out already since they would have realized that they can't beat pros.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:26 pm GMT by MeridianFC
People have been playing poker (or games very like it) in this country for at least 150 years, I'm sure they'll be playing for at least 150 more. I've played since I was a teenager and have had a weekly game for nearly 8 years. We'll be here long after Chris Moneymaker has spent all his WSOP coin on sunglasses.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:43 pm GMT by tomb1
I think it's a fad now, and will fade over time. But never back to where it was ten years ago. I expect it to gradually drop back to about 50%-60% of today's level, then continue for a long time.
1. For B&M casinos, the better places will continue to get business for a long time, though they may have a little more trouble filling up tables. But this will be good business for them.
2. For online play, I think poker will be like porn -- always a good business for the big operators even if the number of players goes up and down.
3. For retailers, though, I think it will be like golf equipment. Once many people get sets, the explosive growth will slow down. But there will continue to be replacement demand for better sets by people who can afford to buy. If the retailers/manufacturers can keep bringing out new cool sh*t, somebody will keep buying, but not at today''s level.
When today's 20-somethings are 35 years old with day jobs, wife and kids, mortgage, etc., they may reduce their poker playing habits. But most will have more money to indulge their desire for more and better stuff. And some will be addicted to gambling (like many of us) and will have discretionary income to wager.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:50 pm GMT by yaw
I can't believe no one has discussed the popularity among tweenagers,. Junior high and younger kids are carrying around decks of cards instead of Gameboys. They spend their money on KEMS, not comics. They play for paperclips, rubberbands, if it's not for value, it's for volume, sheer bragging rights. Before school, lunch, after school. They don't stay up all night playing video games, they have NL tournies. Some parents love it, because it exercises the mind in so many ways, while others don't like the apparent addiction that could lead to heavy drinking or drug use. These kids are 8, 9 10 years away from being able to leagally play in a card room, and a fair amount of them are already counting down the days! Hell, I had my 21st birthday planned when I was 8, I knew I was spending it in a casino!
Then we have the college crowd. Just a couple weeks ago I talked to an old fraternity brother and he said his sister's sorority even has poker nights(no, not the the kind with dildos). Every night of the week there are multiple bars hosting TFPL.net games or equivalent, giving people a shot at making thw WSOP for NO initial investment. College kids have always and will always enjoy drinking, and as long as they can imbibe cheap beer, play poker and maybe, just maybe become a millionaire and finally drop out of college, poker will continue to grow.
I, personally can't believe how much it has exploded. I've been playing poker way before it was cool, and I dealt a lot of black jack when I was in HS. In '99, the only way I could get guys in my fraternity to play poker was if I ordered pizza first. In '01, I bought my Crystal Park's and got made fun of for spending .50/chip for something so worthless. Now instead of playing tripoli, pinnocle, pitch, or other card games at family gatherings, we have 4 tables of 8 or 9 players playing Hold'em. My 85 y/o grandma even knows the game!
With TV popularity and mass social acceptance, poker has been introduced to so many different demographics. My 6 y/o daughter has even asked me to teach her to play!
Sorry for the rant; I just don't see this craze going away for awhile and wanted to introduce some sides that many may not see/know about.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:03 pm GMT by yeltzen
Hahahah college kids. Hahaha.
God am I glad I finally graduated.
Posted Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:55 pm GMT by hachkc
I would say the current popularity of poker will fade somewhat but the number of players 5-10 years from now will be significantly bigger than the number of players 5-10 years ago.
In my family, there's a long tradition of playing poker as well as almost any card game (pinochle, cribbage, euchre, etc). I've been playing poker since I was a teenager (almost 20 years now). I used to play in a regular game that included folks that also played with my grandfather 20 years earlier. I have a poker table that my great-grandfather built in the 30s or 40s. The cup holders in this won't even hold a beer can because they were designed for whiskey glasses.
I don't see anything changing in the near future, I'm just happy its so much easier to find a poker game.
Posted Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:54 am GMT by BeerWench13
| Quote: | | while others don't like the apparent addiction that could lead to heavy drinking or drug use. |
What??? Do parents really believe that poker leads to heavy drinking and/or drug use? I was doing those things long before I was playing poker on a regular basis. I think that's a backward study like the one they did in the 60's where they asked all the heroine and crack addicts if they ever smoked pot and since most had they concluded that pot smoking leads to heavier drug addictions. What a crock. If a person is going to become an alcoholic or a drug addict, I don't think playing poker (which is a calculated risk, not gambling IMO) will be the cause.
Posted Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:57 pm GMT by yeltzen
quote="BeerWench13" | Quote: | | I was doing those things long before I was playing poker on a regular basis. |
I was doin meth before I was doing my ABCs.
Posted Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:22 pm GMT by yaw
There's a fine line between addiction and compulsive behavior. Children that are exposed to 'gambling' may experiment with things outside of poker. The theory is that they are more likely to experiment with durgs/alcohol/tobacco/sex and a younger age then children that aren't exposed to gambling/addiction(this can come from seeing a parent that has a gambling/drinking/drug/sex/tobacco problem as well). Many will grow out of it, or only try something once, while others will live with the addiction in one way or another for the rest of their lives.
That said, I have a very compulsive personality. And I was exposed to gambling at the age of 6 or 7. I carried around a case with poker chips, cards and dice everywhere I went when I was 10 and at 17 I started reading poker/black jack/statistic books for fun. I am attracted to the statistics, the numbers, the psychology and excitement that gambling provides; not to winning/losing money. Do I feel that I was more likely to take chances then some of my friends? Absolutely. Did it have to do with early exposure to gambling? Maybe.
Posted Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:41 pm GMT by warewulf619
I'm glad for the recent Poker boom! I've been playing over 15 years and used to have a hell of a time getting enough players for a game! If you did a game as a social event (bbq, bday or something), then I might get a few players, but they would burn out quickly if I play aggresive. People will only come to your house and give you money so many times. If I wanted a game where I could use skills, I would have to go to a casino. Now my games fill up and I have multiple choices for games on most nights. I can go play tourney or cash if I want. I can go to a $20 mutli table tourney at a friends house and go up against lots of skilled players.
Will it die out? I'm sure some of the new fish will dry up when they figure out that luck will only get them so far before the skill element kicks in. I do think it will level out more than die though.
I do think tournaments may lose popularity though. People get burnt out quickly when they play 10 tourneys in a row and never hit the money.
Posted Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:23 am GMT by JohnnyCache
I'm genuinely torn - part of me loves all the people playing, games everywhere, and all of them trying to 'get serious' about them.
BUT - sometimes it kills me to see some of these guys playing - poker used to be for old men and young hustlers in my town and now it's the new pokemon...
I hope it dies out a little, but not completely. I like the legitimacy, but I miss the game having an underside...I guess I can't make up my mind.
I think the game will "bellcurve" a bit - allthough not as much as people think, because I think a lot of the poker being playing right now is actually being 'revealed' - like if they legalized pot and it became no big thing tomorrow, how many people would admit doing it all the sudden that had actually been doing it all along?
Posted Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:31 pm GMT by Nuts4Omaha
Being mid 20's, out of college and into the "working world," I found it increasingly difficult to meet people who enjoyed poker... until recently obviously. We used to play ALOT in college, had a regular poker night/phooseball tourney in the basement of my fraternity. Admittedly, I have missed the game quite a bit since college, and it is shockingly refreshing to have such a great game enjoy this moment of popularity.
After a few years in a few different industries... I think it is a fair statement that someone who sells casino and gaming supplies can expect a few months of good business... but, anyone getting into the act NOW is probably too late. The "players" in the casino gaming supplies industry have already enjoyed the boom... it will only taper off gradually from here until it hits a sustainable level (Pre-Moneymaker? Who knows?) As far as the internet vendors and retailers are concerned, we are already reaching a point of saturation that will lead to decreases in volume and profitability. (Same can be said in the recent years for products like computers, or cell phones) The boom came, and is beginning to pass.
The best part about this "poker revolution" is the communities like this one that have formed. I can definitely tell that alot of the members of this community will continue to be friends and aquaintences for a long time. At the very minimum, a little money will exchange hands whenever it is possible. 
So, I am going to sit back and ride the wave of popularity. Poker will likely always be around in my life... in one way or another. With what frequency? Pretty much depends on the company you keep I imagine...
When the fad is over, the "real enthusiasts" will remain... the cream always rises to the top.
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:00 am GMT by yeltzen
| Nuts4Omaha wrote: | | When the fad is over, the "real enthusiasts" will remain... the cream always rises to the top. |
Damn, that means I"ll be gone.
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:04 am GMT by JohnnyCache
quote="yeltzen" | BeerWench13 wrote: | | Quote: | | I was doing those things long before I was playing poker on a regular basis. |
I was doin meth before I was doing my ABCs. |
Really? Meth at 15? You must live in the bad part of town :D
Posted Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:49 am GMT by Nuts4Omaha
| yeltzen wrote: | | Nuts4Omaha wrote: | | When the fad is over, the "real enthusiasts" will remain... the cream always rises to the top. |
Damn, that means I"ll be gone. |
There's always room for dead money my friend. j/k
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