going broke with a big ace |
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Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:57 am GMT by krakajak
This is a situation I often encounter in NL tournaments and SNG's.
I'm in second place with about 2,000 chips, blinds are 50/100. I get AK, raise 4x BB, and get 1 caller, who has about 1400 chips (1000 after calling). The flop is all rags.
Now, some people say check/fold here. The problem is, with AK, you're only going to hit the flop about a third of the time. So, if you fold whenever you miss, you're effectively giving your opponent 2:1 odds on you're pre-flop bet. That doesn't sound too bright to me, so I think you need to bet.
I bet 500 chips, he goes all-in. I'm getting 5:1 odds with 6 outs. I have to call. He shows pocket 8's, and I don't improve. Now I'm down to 600 chips and the blinds are going up to 75/150.
How do I keep from going broke with big aces? Should I just limp or min raise with them?
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Posted Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:07 pm GMT by Dave B
Here is where cash games differ from tournaments-you CAN NOT BUY MORE CHIPS.
I hate to use caps-but the reality is that you are willing to risk your stack for a 20% chance of hitting? You have to let this hand go. You cant play pot odds if it is leaving you short stacked and on the verge of being blinded out.
I still think you bet the pot, but you have to be ready to let this hand go if he goes over the top and your only draw is overcards.
Posted Mon May 30, 2005 8:30 am GMT by Jackal
You had the best hand. There is no way you could have known he had the 8,8 until after the flop. All you can do when you have the best hand is bet big and hope the other guy isn't lucky. I do think your preflop raise was weak. I would have raised much more at least 5x the BB. I doubt he would have called with the 8,8 and you would have taken the blinds.
Posted Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:19 pm GMT by ibarrio
..As Always It Depends..
And I think he put you on the Ace...So in either situation you are screwed..But...
If it is a $5 Tounrney... you could have gone Allin and he would have called with P 8's...
If it was a WSOP $300 Sat...then the 5X the BB raise would have worked..
Posted Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:19 pm GMT by NickFlynn
A couple of comments on the comments.
Dave B:
Good point about the difference between cash games and tournaments. However, you need to look at the details again - he can't "bet the pot and be prepared to let the hand go" - the pot is around 1000.
Jackal:
He didn't have the best hand, except in some vaguely theoretical sense. He was a slight dog before the flop, and a much bigger dog after the flop. Also, I don't have a problem with the 4xBB raise - that's a good sized raise at this level of the tournament.
To get back to the original question, you will screw yourself limping or min-raising with AK/AQ. These hands should be played strong before the flop, especially when you are later in the tournaments. After the flop, you often have these kind of tough decisions. In this particular situation, with a rag flop and a pot about the size of the other guy's stack, I think you either go all-in or check and fold. Which you do really depends on whether you think your opponent is capable of laying his hand down - in these situations you really play the man more than you do the cards.
In this particular case, I'd go with check and fold most of the time, unless I really thought the villian was an extremely timid player who was likely to lay down a small pocket pair. I just don't want to put my tournament on the line with ace high right here.
- Nick
Posted Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:24 pm GMT by suitedaces84
If you can't let go of it, go all-in. Getting pot commited without going all-in will give you the worst of both worlds.
Posted Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:30 pm GMT by Soup_dog
| Dave B wrote: | Here is where cash games differ from tournaments-you CAN NOT BUY MORE CHIPS.
I hate to use caps-but the reality is that you are willing to risk your stack for a 20% chance of hitting? You have to let this hand go. You cant play pot odds if it is leaving you short stacked and on the verge of being blinded out.
I still think you bet the pot, but you have to be ready to let this hand go if he goes over the top and your only draw is overcards. |
Good point Dave. Thats exactly how I would handle it. Make the post flop raise and if they come over the top bail. If they call, check the turn without improvement, raise with. If they fold, be happy.
More often than not they will fold outright for me because I tend to have earned a "tight" image by the time there are only a few players left.
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